Delivery-Agent: @(#)$Id: local.c,v 1.54 1998/10/30 06:30:53 akira1 Exp $ on jetstar Received: by j.xx.or.jp (ATSON-1) ; 31 Mar 2000 22:03:36 +0900 Return-Path: Received: from lancer.xx.or.jp (lancer.xx.or.jp [202.224.39.3]) by trantula.xx.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) with ESMTP id WAA00325 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:03:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from ml.xx.or.jp (ml.xx.or.jp [202.224.39.111]) by lancer.xx.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D482648C8 for ; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:03:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by ml.xx.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) with SMTP id WAA20800; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:00:16 +0900 Received: by ml.xx.or.jp; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:00:16 +0900 Received: (from ml@localhost) by ml.xx.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) id WAA33062 for baren-digest-outgoing; Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:00:15 +0900 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:00:15 +0900 Message-Id: <200003311300.WAA33062@ml.xx.or.jp> From: owner-baren@ml.xx.or.jp To: baren@ml.xx.or.jp Subject: Baren Digest V10 #955 Reply-To: baren@ml.xx.or.jp Errors-To: owner-baren@ml.xx.or.jp Precedence: bulk [Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Sender: owner-baren-digest@ml.xx.or.jp X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Baren Digest Friday, 31 March 2000 Volume 10 : Number 955 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Graham Scholes Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:34:39 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9063] Re: Sad tale of Hanga woe >David Bull wrote: > > There are very few blocks that >> couldn't be printed very well with a good medium 8-strand baren. >Ahh...a "good" medium 8-strand baren. I wonder what that would be like... > >Jack PARADISE ! Graham ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:44:19 -0500 Subject: [Baren 9064] Re: archives charset="iso-8859-1" Barbara Did Graham donate the portfolio also? Had mine ready to send, but now will not., unless of course you need it. Graham As one of the smelly, oily ones. I would like to praise our Dave Bull for starting the Baren. Every year I have an Open Studio. This year I featured my woodblock prints. They were a huge success and people were intrigued by my semi new (have been doing them off and on for years, mostly off). I demonstrated carving, embossing and how to use a baren. People wondered why I did not use my press to print . I still love the way the Baren rolls over the paper and wood and would not want to change this. I use the press for etching, not for woodblocks. Anyway, I would not have had such a successful Open Studio without being in this fantastic group. Love you all!!! Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:58:19 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9065] Re: Sad tale of Hanga woe Dave wrote..... >Well _if_ I was taking apprentices, and _if_ you were one of them, then >you wouldn't have any choice - you would be working with just one colour >(black) for a very very long time. Although I certainly never had the >self-discipline to learn printmaking that way _myself_, there is no >question about this method. Learn to print black properly first, then >everything else would be a piece of cake! All well and good, but what if you are like me and don't use Black...?? You remind me of my watercolour art teacher.... Fred Fraser would only allow us to use lamp black for the first year. What a grounding or is that grinding.....!! >(It's a good thing that I won't be 'running' things during the June >workshop! Let's see ... we'll start every morning with an hour of >baren-tying practice before going in for Marnie's breakfast at 6:30 ... >Hey, you think Maria is the only one around here with a whip ...?) Actually it wouldn't be so bad. After the second day everybody would clear the hell out and we could take the fees and have a fling... Graham ------------------------------ From: B Mason Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:16:49 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9066] boot camp Dave and Graham, You guys make boot camp sound like punishment! The real punishment would be if we had to eat Graham's cooking instead of Marnie's! Barbara ------------------------------ From: "Bea Gold" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:32:27 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9067] Re: Sad tale of Hanga woe charset="iso-8859-1" Hey - I never said I was quitting! I'm just sorry I'm not young enough to have time to master this new and extraordinary skill!!! Thank you ALL for your kind and thoughtful words - If you would believe after all that, Roxanne still asked if I would teach the Hanga class for LAPS - (I couldn't do it even if I thought I were capable because that's when we take our whole family on a cruise to the Caribbean - July 23 -30 for our 50th anniversary) Dave - I went through your suggestions for WHY and - - I don't think the carving was not low enough because I kept cutting lower on each of my practice prints - - I don't think the paper was too wet - it was so lovely soft I was just sorry you couldn't feel it - - the two causes that sound right are the way I held the baren (although I kept telling myself -"FLAT") and that the carving was not smooth and the rough spots picked up the pigment The little pillows would have worked if I realized that I was going to get a new blotch - The worst of all this is that I thought I was getting better with each new print - now I feel like I'm starting over! Here I go again. Thanks again, Bea Gold Los Angeles, CA USA http://www/beagold.com/ ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:23:38 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9068] Re: Sad tale of Hanga woe <200003300341.MAA41594@ml.xx.or.jp> <200003300835.RAA11886@ml.xx.or.jp> <200003301655.BAA13578@ml.xx.or.jp> Ha! You think you could get rid of us *that* easy? We made it through last year's boot camp and now we're coming back for more. What does that tell you? (that we are gluttons for punishment, I think) Wanda The honorable Dave wrote: >(It's a good thing that I won't be 'running' things during the June >workshop! Let's see ... we'll start every morning with an hour of >baren-tying practice before going in for Marnie's breakfast at 6:30 ... >Hey, you think Maria is the only one around here with a whip ...?) And the honorable Graham answered: Actually it wouldn't be so bad. After the second day everybody would clear the hell out and we could take the fees and have a fling... ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:46:23 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9069] Re:archives, boot camp, zen tools Hi Jeanne, I'm not Barbara - but thank you for thinking about donating your set of #1 prints! I don't think Graham had one of the cases - but Dave Bull is donating that - so now we will have a complete set in the Gilkey Center. Thank you Dave! Your "Open Studio" sounds wonderful, Jeanne. What better way to show one's work, than in the studio with all the tools at hand? O.K. Dave, I know that Maria's wolves & my wild horse can communicate with our minds - but paper? barens? gouges? I do know & have felt this briefly once or twice - that when printing is going well, it seems as though you are in a sort of dream-state, just going through the motions as if someone or something else were in control. I would like to achieve that feeling more often! I think Bea mentioned something about that from April's class once. Any explanations? Wanda ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:44:15 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9070] Re: TROUBLE IN PARADISE & wood intaglio charset="iso-8859-1" Barbara wrote: > Some one told me that there was a printmaker that did intaglio wood > block, maybe Andy English? I looked at the samples and was so > encouraged, just like a lamb to the slaughter. I am thinking maybe it > was the wood, I used poplar. > I did varnish it twice before I printed, once before cutting > and once after. That may have solved the problem with the ink being > absorbed into the wood. The intaglio lines were just impossible. If I > wiped it clean on the surface, the ink lifted out of the lines too much. > If I used smaller lines they barely printed. I did like the plate tone, > it was very rich. So back to the drawing board. > Maybe this is why they went to metal plates? They were all loosing their > minds working with wood? Barbara, I have had success with intaglio-like lines, however I was using engraving wood or resingrave. The one that held the ink best was walnut, very hard, very tough to carve, impossible with woodcut tools. I printed a very transparent red./umber ink which crawled into the lines but also stayed on the surface. The result was a darker line drawing (ink in the lines) with transparent relief areas. I think part of the problem is that woodcut-woods are way waaaaaaay too soft to carve fine enough lines for intaglio. Poplar definitely seems too soft to hold fine lines. Think of metal plates and think of a wood that would behave like that when carved: lemon, endgrain maple, walnut. Also, you might want to try sanding whatever wood you pick (cherry and plank maple might work this way) to a metal like smoothness, starting with a 320-400-600-1000-1500-3000 grit paper. What you will get is a very shiny slick surface that should wipe easily, especially after varnishing. I still think that the lines will still be too thick to hold ink properly unless you engrave them with engraving tools. If all else fails, McClain's and Rembrandt carry Resintaglio, similar to Resingrave but made specifically for etchless intaglio work. I ordered a couple of blocks but have not yet tried them. Hope this helps, Maria ****************************** Maria Arango, Printmaker Las Vegas Nevada USA http://www.printmakingstudio.com maria@mariarango.com mariten@lvcm.com ****************************** ------------------------------ From: B Mason Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 11:07:22 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9071] intaglio Thanks Maria, I might try this after I rest up....think I have had enough punishment for one month! Barbara ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 14:25:05 -0500 Subject: [Baren 9072] Re: Sad tale of Hanga woe charset="iso-8859-1" Bea Join the crowd. Every time I start a new woodblock print , it is like starting all over again. I guess it is because we are always learning/ Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: "Jaime Lee Hackbart" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:22:55 -0600 Subject: [Baren 9073] TROUBLE IN PARADISE & wood intaglio Barbara, I have had lots of students do wood intaglio but not on purpose! Jaime - ---------- >From: "Maria Arango" >To: >Subject: [Baren 9070] Re: TROUBLE IN PARADISE & wood intaglio >Date: Thu, Mar 30, 2000, 12:44 PM > > Barbara wrote: >> Some one told me that there was a printmaker that did intaglio wood >> block, maybe Andy English? I looked at the samples and was so >> encouraged, just like a lamb to the slaughter. I am thinking maybe it >> was the wood, I used poplar. >> I did varnish it twice before I printed, once before cutting >> and once after. That may have solved the problem with the ink being >> absorbed into the wood. The intaglio lines were just impossible. If I >> wiped it clean on the surface, the ink lifted out of the lines too much. >> If I used smaller lines they barely printed. I did like the plate tone, >> it was very rich. So back to the drawing board. >> Maybe this is why they went to metal plates? They were all loosing their >> minds working with wood? > > ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 07:34:40 +0900 Subject: [Baren 9074] Re: Sad tale of Hanga woe <200003300341.MAA41594@ml.xx.or.jp> <200003300835.RAA11886@ml.xx.or.jp> <200003301655.BAA13578@ml.xx.or.jp> Graham wrote: > All well and good, but what if you are like me and don't use Black...?? > You remind me of my watercolour art teacher.... Fred Fraser would > only allow us to use lamp black for the first year. Ah but remember Graham, I'm not interested in trying to teach 'art' - what I can do is teach _printing_. Black is difficult. It is so difficult, and (for my traditional Japanese kind of work) so fundamental, that it is the only place to start. In my kind of prints - take away the black and you have nothing left. Take away everything _but_ the black, and you still have a beautiful print. My imaginary apprentice truly wouldn't need anything else ... not for a long long time anyway. Dave ------------------------------ From: "Bea Gold" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:27:30 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9075] Re: Sad tale of Hanga woe charset="iso-8859-1" Yep - I agree Dave, I think I'll do that next time - I do love black printing - it's just that all the other stuff (bokatchi, layering colors, embossing, etc)is so intriguing - Thanks Jeanne - I feel the same way but I have been doing woodblock prints since I was a kid. Bea ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 16:31:40 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9076] Re:archives, boot camp, zen tools >I don't think Graham had one of the cases - but Dave Bull is donating >that - so now we will have a complete set in the Gilkey Center. Thank >you Dave! Good.... I did not get the case and was going to offer to make one for the set I have. FYI The cases are a Lambert Folder with a tight wrap of blue cotton.... A standard packaging format.... I started my packaging life designing all sort of these and other packages... Cheers, Graham/Victoria BC An Island in the Pacific ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:10:23 -0500 Subject: [Baren 9077] Julio's P.C. charset=ISO-8859-1 No, this isn't referring to Julio's personal computer, but to the wonderf= ul postcard which arrived in the mail today heralding the Skokie debut of Baren. Nice job Julio! You are taking this and running with it and doing a great job! It would seem that you have all the bases covered.= = : ) We may need to hire you full time as our publicity agent. Well done! Gary KC = USA ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:43:31 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9078] Re:archives, boot camp, zen tools <200003301638.BAA24592@ml.xx.or.jp> <200003301833.DAA47688@ml.xx.or.jp> <200003310028.JAA10888@ml.xx.or.jp> Well, then, I guess we will have to have a little side lesson in case/folder/portfolio making, huh? With all that spare time we will have. Wanda Graham wrote: > FYI The cases are a Lambert Folder with a tight wrap of blue cotton.... > A standard packaging format.... > I started my packaging life designing all sort of these and other packages... ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 20:55:25 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9079] Re:archives, boot camp, zen tools We could offer an extra week of portfolio making.... Not a problem....and it is a lot easier than the hanga stuff. Graham >Well, then, I guess we will have to have a little side lesson in >case/folder/portfolio making, huh? With all that spare time we will have. > >Wanda > >Graham wrote: > >> FYI The cases are a Lambert Folder with a tight wrap of blue cotton.... >> A standard packaging format.... >> I started my packaging life designing all sort of these and other >>packages... ------------------------------ From: Legreenart@cs.com Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 00:20:37 EST Subject: [Baren 9080] Re: Baren 9055 TROUBLE IN PARADISE Barbara, I am wondering haw much intaglio experience you have in wiping other plates. Off hand yopur description of your troubles sounds like a wiping problem that was misdiagnosed. What were you wiping with? Intaglio woodcut is one thing i haven't done, but I have had success in wiping many other plates lke linoleum and cardboard. If you are using tarltons, they are too "grabby" for some plates.It might be the reason you pulled the ink out of the lines in the wood plate. Using news print and bare hand wiping is appropriate for several kinds of non-metallic plates. Le Green ------------------------------ From: B Mason Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:53:18 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9081] intaglio Le, I have had a fair amount of experience and I did try lots of things to wipe from phone book pages to paper towels. I think the lines were just too wide to hold ink. I had this problem when I first learned etching and the instructor aquatinted the lines to print, a lesson I remember well. If I use a harder wood as Maria sugggested it might work. I will get some really hard wood and try again. I am too stuborn to give up. It did print, just not to my satisfaction. Barbara ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 22:58:56 -0800 Subject: [Baren 9082] Re: intaglio charset="iso-8859-1" Barbara....I got some really good intaglio results with water based poly coated masonite,...it wipes very well. Philip - ----- Original Message ----- From: "B Mason" To: "baren" Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 9:53 PM Subject: [Baren 9081] intaglio > Le, > I have had a fair amount of experience and I did try lots of things to > wipe from phone book pages to paper towels. I think the lines were just > too wide to hold ink. I had this problem when I first learned etching > and the instructor aquatinted the lines to print, a lesson I remember > well. If I use a harder wood as Maria sugggested it might work. I will > get some really hard wood and try again. I am too stuborn to give up. It > did print, just not to my satisfaction. > Barbara > > ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V10 #955 ****************************