Delivery-Agent: @(#)$Id: local.c,v 1.54 1998/10/30 06:30:53 akira1 Exp $ on starlifter Received: by j.xx.or.jp (ATSON-1) ; 11 Feb 2000 22:03:01 +0900 Return-Path: Received: from lancer.xx.or.jp (lancer.xx.or.jp [202.224.39.3]) by trantula.xx.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) with ESMTP id WAA17401 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:03:00 +0900 (JST) Received: from ml.xx.or.jp (ml.xx.or.jp [202.224.39.111]) by lancer.xx.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id B27034893 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:02:59 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by ml.xx.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) with SMTP id WAA15008; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:00:14 +0900 Received: by ml.xx.or.jp; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:00:13 +0900 Received: (from ml@localhost) by ml.xx.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) id WAA49748 for baren-digest-outgoing; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:00:13 +0900 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 22:00:13 +0900 Message-Id: <200002111300.WAA49748@ml.xx.or.jp> From: owner-baren@ml.xx.or.jp To: baren@ml.xx.or.jp Subject: Baren Digest V10 #899 Reply-To: baren@ml.xx.or.jp Errors-To: owner-baren@ml.xx.or.jp Precedence: bulk [Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Sender: owner-baren-digest@ml.xx.or.jp MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by trantula.xx.or.jp id WAA17401 X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 Baren Digest Friday, 11 February 2000 Volume 10 : Numbe= r 899 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Daniel Dew" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:03:28 -0500 Subject: [Baren 8317] Finally done=20 I did it !. I'm finally done with overly anal attempt at perfection. I decided that I wanted to do a lino reduction block print and try to mak= e it look as photographic as possible. Finally printed the 17th color at lunch. No time anymore, have to set up in the morning, run home at lunch= , print real fast and head back to work so as to keep a job i don't like. Ohg well, no use crying here. Hopefully will be able to share the print on-line soon. I broke down and bought a scanner with slide capabilities, should be here Monday. P.S. I love that people are using the country of origin on their e-mails. Maybe one day we can use snapshot photos????? See ya, Dan Dew USA - -- ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:30:54 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8318] Re: key block=20 barnaby.smith@immi.gov.au wrote: >=20 > Although you should watch out if you are using dampened thin kozo paper= it can > sag into the inked valleys and get some unintended results - but some t= imes > unintended is interesting! I tend to have to blot the valleys with a r= ag. Yes, but that usually tends to happen in the larger valleys - and with damper paper - and especially when you *don't* want it to happen. Yes, the rags help when you have a trouble spot, a wide open valley that the paper just won't stay out of! > On the question of combining oil with water based hanga, you should see= some of > Ken Tyler Graphics (USA) collaborations with artists like Frank Stella.= =20 > The block/plate assembly took up most of the > exhibition space and was far more interesting than the print. =20 Do you think the block/plate assembly was more interesting than the print to *everyone* or just the printmakers who were viewing it? Sounds intriguing, although I hadn't thought of combining the two - seems an odd notion to me. But what do I know? Welcome to Baren, Barnaby! Wanda ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 11:57:43 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8319] Re: key block charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20 Wanda------There's a technique where you put a little square pad for supp= ort in those valleys, i.e., a couple of squares of cardboard glued together,...paper won't sag! Philip-Hammond,OR USA - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wanda" To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: [Baren 8318] Re: key block > barnaby.smith@immi.gov.au wrote: > > > > Although you should watch out if you are using dampened thin kozo pap= er it can > > sag into the inked valleys and get some unintended results - but some times > > unintended is interesting! I tend to have to blot the valleys with a rag. > > Yes, but that usually tends to happen in the larger valleys - and with > damper paper - and especially when you *don't* want it to happen. Yes, > the rags help when you have a trouble spot, a wide open valley that the > paper just won't stay out of! > > > On the question of combining oil with water based hanga, you should s= ee some of > > Ken Tyler Graphics (USA) collaborations with artists like Frank Stell= a. > > > The block/plate assembly took up most of the > > exhibition space and was far more interesting than the print. > > > Do you think the block/plate assembly was more interesting than the > print to *everyone* or just the printmakers who were viewing it? Sounds > intriguing, although I hadn't thought of combining the two - seems an > odd notion to me. But what do I know? > > Welcome to Baren, Barnaby! > > Wanda > ------------------------------ From: "Daniel Dew" Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:11:34 -0500 Subject: [Baren 8320] Re: key block=20 thank you, never thought of that. you people are awesome. Dan Dew USA - -- - ---------- >From: "Philip Smith" >To: >Subject: [Baren 8319] Re: key block >Date: Thu, Feb 10, 2000, 2:57 PM > > Wanda------There's a technique where you put a little square pad for su= pport > in those valleys, i.e., a couple of squares of cardboard glued > together,...paper won't sag! Philip-Hammond,OR USA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wanda" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2000 11:30 AM > Subject: [Baren 8318] Re: key block > > >> barnaby.smith@immi.gov.au wrote: >> > >> > Although you should watch out if you are using dampened thin kozo pa= per > it can >> > sag into the inked valleys and get some unintended results - but som= e > times >> > unintended is interesting! I tend to have to blot the valleys with = a > rag. >> >> Yes, but that usually tends to happen in the larger valleys - and with >> damper paper - and especially when you *don't* want it to happen. Yes, >> the rags help when you have a trouble spot, a wide open valley that th= e >> paper just won't stay out of! >> >> > On the question of combining oil with water based hanga, you should = see > some of >> > Ken Tyler Graphics (USA) collaborations with artists like Frank Stel= la. >> >> > The block/plate assembly took up most of the >> > exhibition space and was far more interesting than the print. >> >> >> Do you think the block/plate assembly was more interesting than the >> print to *everyone* or just the printmakers who were viewing it? Sound= s >> intriguing, although I hadn't thought of combining the two - seems an >> odd notion to me. But what do I know? >> >> Welcome to Baren, Barnaby! >> >> Wanda >> >=20 ------------------------------ From: Studio Dalwood Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:56:50 +1100 Subject: [Baren 8321] To Barnaby and Ittai, exhbibitions and exchanges=20 Barnaby said=20 "On the question of combining oil with water based hanga, you should see some of Ken Tyler Graphics (USA) collaborations with artists like Frank Stella. They recently had an exhibition here at the Australian National Gallery of a huge scale print by Stella which combined in jigsaw fashion, copper etching plates with (I think) hanga woodblocks (or they may have been inked in the European way with oil based and roller). The block/plate assembly took up most of the exhibition space and was far more interesting than the print." WooHooo, another Aussie. G'Day! Have you been lurking all this time or did I miss something again? Do you have any association with GIW? I saw this show when I was in Canberra last year, and mentioned in on baren too.. The block was incredible and by far more exciting than the print which was impressive for its scale but not for much else I thought. Dont like his colours. It hadnt actually opened so I had to peer across the ropes to see it, I saw all I wanted to see. We should have enough Aussies to have an Aus baren meet soon. Canberra is half way twixt Sydney and Melbourne and Jan is coming across from WA in September..... ********************=20 "hi Josephine My name is Ittai and I may like to take part in the second exchande if would heppen. Is it ok? Is there any subject to this exchange? thank you ittai ******************** Ittai, The exchange I mentioned will also be about sacred trees. See the website information at http://www.acay.com.au/~severn/sacred.htm I have noted your interest and will let you know when it gets started. There is also a possibility that there may be another exchange with another subject coming soon for those who are waiting to get started on one. regards Josephine ------------------------------ From: Studio Dalwood Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:16:26 +1100 Subject: [Baren 8322] Letterforms=20 I know this is not strictly woodblock but it follows on from the discussion about letterforms. I found an interesting website today. http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/richart/work/index.htm The work is similar in concept to some works by Bea Maddock who some of you will remember did that wonderful piece on the Tasmanian coastline in the Australian Landscapes print exhibition I gave you the url too. This new site explores the boundaries between text and image. I found it very interesting work and wanted to share it with you. Josephine ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 07:48:24 +0900 Subject: [Baren 8323] Announcement ...=20 This just in ... *** The Biennale internationale d'estampe contemporaine de Trois-Rivi=E8res i= s a major event aiming to achieve diffusion and visibility of contemporary printmaking of all horizons. At the first edition, it was possible to see 222 prints of artists from 17 countries. This event will take place, for a second time, in the summer of 2001 at Galerie d'art du Parc and Maison de la Culture de Trois-Rivi=E8res.=20 The selected artists will have from three to seven artworks shown in the exhibition, providing the visitors with the occasion of discovering or acknowledging their artistic proposals. The catalogue of the event will content all the works and aknowledge on artists participant.=20 We invite artists in printmaking interested to participate at this competition to communicate with us to get the entry form.=20 The prizes will given away as:=20 - - Grand Prize of Biennale internationale d'estampe contemporaine de Trois-Rivi=E8res which include 3000$;=20 - - Honourable Mention Banque Nationale du Canada with a 1000$ cash prize= ; - - Public's Award Le Nouvelliste will be attributed at the end of the exhibitions to an artist according to the number of vote his or her work will have received and it comes with a 1000.$ cash prize;=20 - - the Loto-Qu=E9bec Purchase Award will be given to an artist from Qu=E9= bec, with a 1000.$ cash prize;=20 - - the Presse Papier Invitation prize concern all artist from other country than Canada. This prize is a specific invitation to an artist to come in Presse Papier for working and sharing with the Trois-Rivi=E8res' professional printmakers.=20 La Biennale internationale d'estampe contemporaine de Trois-Rivi=E8res animates a permanent Web site (http://sites.rapidus.net/biennale.trois-rivieres/).=20 The entry form is on and it is possible to print it. To get it by mail, the address is : La Biennale internationale d'estampe contemporaine de Trois-Rivi=E8res 1425, place de l'H=F4tel-de-Ville c.p. 368 Trois-Rivi=E8res Qu=E9bec, Can= ada G9A 5H3 http://sites.rapidus.net/biennale.trois-rivieres Informations 819-372-4611 *** Dave ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:10:54 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8324] Who-done-it ?=20 I have posted a print at..... http://members.home.net/woodblocks/Whodoneit.html which was given to me. The person did not know anything about it ie. The artist or date when it was made. Any body out there got a clue... Thanks in advance. Graham ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:53:33 +0900 Subject: [Baren 8325] Re: Who-done-it ?=20 Graham wrote: > Any body out there got a clue... > http://members.home.net/woodblocks/Whodoneit.html The signature reads: Kunisada II drawn by Toyokuni One of my reference books here tells me that in 1801 Kunisada became a pupil of Tokokuni, and in 1844 he took over the studio name of Koyokuni, and Kunimasa took the name Kunisada II in 1846, and Kunisada II started using the name Tokokuni III (actually IV) in about 1870, and Toyokuni II was challenged n the succession by other followers of Toyokuni, so changed his name to Toyoshige, and .... ... had enough Graham? If you did happen to want more info on this, and other topics of similar interest, make a post over on the Japanese Prints Bulletin Board at: http://www.shogungallery.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html Those guys just _love_ these things! Dave ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:02:33 -1000 Subject: [Baren 8326] Re: Who-done-it ?=20 Graham Scholes wrote: > I have posted a print at..... > http://members.home.net/woodblocks/Whodoneit.html > which was given to me. > > The person did not know anything about it > ie. The artist or date when it was made. > > Any body out there got a clue... The signature is of Kameido Toyokuni, or Toyokuni the third. Utegawa Kunisada (1786-1865) inherited the Toyokuni name from Utagawa Toyokuni part way through his career as a print designer. For a little more info, check here: http://spectacle.berkeley.edu/~fiorillo/3kunisada.html . By the way, are you sure that is a fold in the middle, and not a joint, as it looks like one of his diptychs to me (a print done in two parts, and pasted together)? Jack Aiea, Hawaii ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:14:25 +0900 Subject: [Baren 8327] Re: Who-done-it ?=20 Jack Reisland wrote: > The signature is of Kameido Toyokuni, etc. That will teach me a lesson! Trying to be 'first' with my response, I put about three typos in my reply ... Tokokuni? Who's that!=20 Koyokuni? Who he? Thanks Jack! Dave ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 14:23:33 -1000 Subject: [Baren 8328] Re: Who-done-it ?=20 Graham Scholes wrote: > I have posted a print at..... > http://members.home.net/woodblocks/Whodoneit.html > which was given to me. > > The person did not know anything about it > ie. The artist or date when it was made. > > Any body out there got a clue... ...can you give me a scan of the title, etc. in the margin? Jack Aiea, Hawaii ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 16:53:20 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8329] Re: Who-done-it ?=20 >Graham Scholes wrote: > >> I have posted a print at..... >> http://members.home.net/woodblocks/Whodoneit.html >> which was given to me. >check here: http://spectacle.berkeley.edu/~fiorillo/3kunisada.html >. By the way, are you sure that is a fold in the middle, and not a >joint, as it looks like one of his diptychs to me (a print done in two >parts, and pasted together)? Jack It is a fold and not a joint. A powerful glass enable you to see the fibr= es going across the fold. The print size is 14 1/4" x 9 13/16 On the back it is obvious that this print was pasting into a book as you can see hosho fibre is torn or ruptured where it was glue. It was pasted 3/4 wide on the left side of print so attached alone the spine area of th= e right hand page. It there any value to this... I thought of donating it to the Victoria A= rt Gallery. I see by the web page that this guy sure produced a lot of stuff. Thanks. Graham ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:58:02 -1000 Subject: [Baren 8330] Re: Who-done-it ?=20 Graham Scholes wrote: > > It is a fold and not a joint. A powerful glass enable you to see the fi= bres > going across the fold. > The print size is 14 1/4" x 9 13/16 > On the back it is obvious that this print was pasting into a book as yo= u > can see hosho fibre is torn or ruptured where it was glue. It was past= ed > 3/4 wide on the left side of print so attached alone the spine area of = the > right hand page. > > It there any value to this... I thought of donating it to the Victoria= Art > Gallery. > I see by the web page that this guy sure produced a lot of stuff. There is indeed potential value to this print. From what I can tell by yo= ur scan, it appears to be quite strong in color. It was quite common for pri= nts to be mounted in books during the Meiji era when this was produced, so th= e crease is not really a problem, and, if it is indeed valuable, the small = holes that you mentioned are quite easily repaired. You first need to determine whether it is an original issue, or a later re-print. That information is contained in the characters in the margins, along with the title, date of first printing, etc. Post a good scan of the print and an enlargement of = the margins on the Shogun Gallery site that Dave mentioned, and see what the = guys there come up with. Give me a scan, and I can at least get the title for = you. Jack Aiea, Hawaii ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 19:09:06 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8331] Re: Who-done-it ?=20 >Graham Scholes wrote: > >> I have posted a print at..... >> http://members.home.net/woodblocks/Whodoneit.html >> which was given to me. ...can you give me a scan of the title, etc. in the margin? Jack There are no margins.... Somebody must of cut them off..... Graham - Victoria BC ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 19:20:44 -1000 Subject: [Baren 8332] Re: Who-done-it ?=20 Graham Scholes wrote: > > > There are no margins.... > Somebody must of cut them off..... Sorry to here that, it now has little value, except as a study or decorative print. The borders, and the information contained in them are very important to a collector or scholar. Jack Aiea, Hawaii ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:48:28 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8333] Re: Who-done-it ?=20 >> There are no margins.... >> Somebody must of cut them off..... > >Sorry to here that, it now has little value, except as a study or >decorative print. The borders, and the information contained in them are >very important to a collector or scholar. Jack, You know I am not surprised in the least bit. A little story. We have an art critic here writing for the local Victoria paper. On time last year he was writing about the Art on the web and chose my print Carmanah as a picture to illustrate his column.... He mentioned the site but no more. I felt I wanted to thank him so invited him up to pick out a print to sho= w my appreciation. He came up and picked up a $400 job and them offered me this thing. When= I saw it I was quite perturbed that he would offer this piece, and that it was in such bad condition. I should not have been surprised as he truly = is not a nice person. He continually dig people and his writing is extreme= ly subjective and cruel.... He is a practicing artist himself and has an eg= o bigger than anyone I have met. I had this re-enforced one time when a TV crew came up to do some footage of me and they had to do a shot at his house. They cut his time slot to under a minutes and gave me 5 minutes. When I had the exhibition this last summer at the Art Gallery he did not = do a write up about it..... Writes all the others but not mine...... Go figure.... I think I will bundle the thing up and return it to him telling him it do= es not fit with my decor. Graham Thanks for all your help.... ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 16:43:10 +0900 Subject: [Baren 8334] Re: Who-done-it ? <200002110305.MAA16100@ml.asahi-n= et.or.jp> <200002110644.PAA12020@ml.xx.or.jp>=20 Graham and Jack said (among other things): > If there any value to this...=20 > There is indeed potential value to this print. > it now has little value, except as a study or decorative print. > I think I will bundle the thing up and return it to him Gentlemen, might I respectfully suggest that in your discussion of the 'value' of this print you might just be overlooking something ...? Do you think it is beautiful? Do you like it? Does it give pleasure to hold, and to look at? Have you noticed how smoothly and deeply the colours have been printed? How about the carving of those hair-lines? =20 Value? What on earth are you talking about! Dave ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 22:01:56 -1000 Subject: [Baren 8335] Re: Who-done-it ? <200002110305.MAA16100@ml.asahi-n= et.or.jp> <200002110644.PAA12020@ml.xx.or.jp> <200002110743.QAA118= 60@ml.xx.or.jp>=20 David Bull wrote: > > Gentlemen, might I respectfully suggest that in your discussion of the > 'value' of this print you might just be overlooking something ...? > > Do you think it is beautiful? Do you like it? Does it give pleasure t= o > hold, and to look at? Have you noticed how smoothly and deeply the > colours have been printed? How about the carving of those hair-lines? > > Value? What on earth are you talking about! That's what I meant by value as a study or decorative piece. It can have value to admire the design (decorative) or to admire the workmanship in carving and printing (study), but I suspect that Graham wanted to know if it had market value. Sorry for not being as clear. Jack Doghouse, USA ------------------------------ From: ArtLeBez@aol.com Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 04:30:29 EST Subject: [Baren 8336] Re: Baren Digest V10 #898=20 hello Baren, I am new to the digest and new to the internet. My name is Gary Waters I = am=20 ja Welsh printmaker and painter, seven years ago I moved to France , I l= ive=20 in a small village in the southwest and run summer workshops in photogra= phhy=20 and painting and printmaking . I am trying to get a grant from the French government to come and wor= k in=20 Japan for a year. They have a program called the Villa Kujoyama in Kyoto= for=20 artists to come and work for periods up to one year. this sounds like a=20 fantastic opprotunity to come and experience Japan, and after living here= out=20 in the sticks a dose of a new culture, language and landscape will be ver= y=20 stimulating. To qualify for the program one must have established contacts in Japa= n. =20 So, I am writing in the hope of finding artists to meet and exchange i= deas=20 with and perhaps institutes (museums/galleries/schools), with whom I cou= ld=20 work. Because of my language barrier (I don't speak Japanese) it would= be=20 essential to this in a place where participants spoke either French or=20 English or alongside a Japanese photographer. =20 My interest in coming to Japan is to learn about traditional Japanese= =20 woodblock techniques. I have had some experience of woodblock printing, = but=20 mainly I have made etchings and cliche verres. I look forward to your im= put=20 and will be very grateful for any information. Yours, Gary Waters ------------------------------ From: "John Ryrie" Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 23:43:25 +1100 Subject: [Baren 8337] a cut print charset=3D"iso-8859-1"=20 > Welcome Gary > > it now has little value, except as a study or decorative print. > > Do you think it is beautiful? Do you like it? Does it give pleasure t= o > hold, and to look at? Have you noticed how smoothly and deeply the > colours have been printed? How about the carving of those hair-lines? > I'm with David on this. > This cutting of edges not only happens to Japanese prints most of Durer's, Hogarth's and all of the Rembrandt prints that I have seen have = had the borders cut off. This doesn't stand in the way of some of them fetch= ing over $100,000. showily there must be some print collectors who are interested in such wo= rks for their than just an investment. Horacio your dragon just arrived wonderful thank you. John ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V10 #899 ****************************