Delivery-Agent: @(#)$Id: local.c,v 1.54 1998/10/30 06:30:53 akira1 Exp $ on jetstar Received: by j.xx.or.jp (ATSON-1) ; 2 Feb 2000 11:14:36 +0900 Return-Path: Received: from lancer.xx.or.jp (lancer.xx.or.jp [202.224.39.3]) by trantula.xx.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) with ESMTP id LAA14708 for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:14:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from ml.xx.or.jp (ml.xx.or.jp [202.224.39.111]) by lancer.xx.or.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74AD0489B for ; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:14:35 +0900 (JST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by ml.xx.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) with SMTP id LAA31058; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:11:55 +0900 Received: by ml.xx.or.jp; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:11:55 +0900 Received: (from ml@localhost) by ml.xx.or.jp (8.8.8/3.7W) id LAA52014 for baren-digest-outgoing; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:11:55 +0900 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:11:55 +0900 Message-Id: <200002020211.LAA52014@ml.xx.or.jp> From: owner-baren@ml.xx.or.jp To: baren@ml.xx.or.jp Subject: Baren Digest V10 #886 Reply-To: baren@ml.xx.or.jp Errors-To: owner-baren@ml.xx.or.jp Precedence: bulk [Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Sender: owner-baren-digest@ml.xx.or.jp X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Baren Digest Wednesday, 2 February 2000 Volume 10 : Number 886 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: B Mason Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 06:37:22 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8102] calendar Dave, What are the images in the 12th calendar picture? I can't figure out what these are. As I blew them up I laughed to see that what I thought were flowers turned out to be crabs! These are indeed very nice, a great sense of casual confidence in these prints, very sure marks. Barbara ------------------------------ From: Cucamongie@aol.com Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 10:32:02 EST Subject: [Baren 8103] thanks Hi all, I know this should be on BA5 but I don't know who is & isn't on BA5- just wanted to thank everyone so much for all the fantastic dragons, I had a couple of stragglers come in yesterday, Horacio's and Georga's - they're great!!! I'm going to have to put them together in a book or portfolio of some sort- best to all, Sarah ------------------------------ From: inklinepress@inetnebr.com (Jaime) Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:54:40 -0600 Subject: [Baren 8104] new member lurking >> Hello all- >> I am not sure how to go about introducing myself to the group. I only >> discovered you guys a few days ago. I contacted Josephine and she >>suggested I just jump in. So here it goes. I am very excited though by >>the >> discussion and contact. I haven't had much "art talk" since I graduated, >> let alone, printmaking talk! >> >> I am really a mixed-media printmaker. Frequently, I combine multiple >> methods in one print. I do a lot of monotypes and monoprints. I like the >> speed of image generation then if I discover something magical. I will >> attempt to use that information in an edition. I also, havent had time to >> make an edition. I have been juggling several part-time teaching jobs for >> the last two years and am just getting acclimated to the necessary time >> management. I am actually very bad with time management.. Now I am >>readying myself to work, work, work. I just bought a press - table top >>takach. I am hoping to have work space set up by the end of February. I am a bit intimidated by all this production speed talk. I ahven't ever concerned myself with how fast I get it done. The way that I work the image often developes in the process. Printmaking affords delibration and meditation. My editions are usually quite small too about 5 unless I am participating in a print exchange. I have never had a real solo show but have particpated in a lot of group shows. >> >> My Content has always been a bit dark. Seemingly simple compostions are >> imbued with layers and layers of stain like veils. Sometime I will email >> my thesis statement. I am not able to recap it in a sentence or two right >> now. Gotta go juggle classes. Best regards, Jaime Lee Hackbart ------------------------------ From: "Marco Flavio Marinucci" Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 08:54:23 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8105] Bootcamp 2000 Hello everybody, here is your almost always silent (but those who have been at Graham's workshop know that is the case only on a mailing list) Marco Flavio Marinucci. I just wanted to drop you a line in case there was somebody still undecided about the 2000 Woodblock bootcamp. I have been really crazy here in San Francisco to prepare for the show opening in 4 weeks and have been printing like a mad person. What I learned in Victoria has proven worth its weight in gold. I have redesigned the way I print and carve from the ground up (almost) and now I can do an edition of prints as opposed to 1 or 2 with tons of frustration thrown in just because. So, in case you are still deciding I strongly recommend to join if you want to have a true general understanding of what this process is all about or if you think you already know but some things are just not quite working out. A presto, Marco Flavio ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 09:39:51 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8106] and nifty prints ... >It's a set of 12 prints that were given to me by an amateur printmaker >who visited my exhibition last week. Go take a look; I think you will >enjoy them! > >http://w.com/temporary/calendar/index.html Delightful.... Graham ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 08:34:25 -1000 Subject: [Baren 8107] Re: Council matters and nifty prints ... I think that the division of labor at the organizational level of Baren is a very practical idea, and one that is long overdue. It is clear that baren has become much too successful for one person to manage, particularly if they wish to have a life away from the computer screen. I suspect that this was a difficult decision for Dave, and now that he has received a few negative comments, I thought it would be a good idea to let him know that he has my complete support. ...and that blockprint calendar is great! Is this indicative of the level of amateur printmaking in Japan? Jack ------------------------------ From: "JoeS" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:45:27 -0500 Subject: [Baren 8108] Re: exchange 2 cents Baren Members I have been a member for over a year now. I was very excited to discover Dave's exceptional site (as well as his exceptional work.) I have cut and printed my own hanga prints. The information (and inspiration) that I get from this site is just invaluable. I have put to practical use information I could find nowhere else but in the encyclopedia. (i.e. the Yoshida printing guide.) What amazed me more is that Dave was doing this all by himself! Those of us who have the time available should support this site with our own efforts and relieve Dave of some of the drudgery connected to day to day. If all this means a "council" so be it. Exchanges; I was excited in participating in an exchange (I did # 4) because I was hoping to see the hanga technique of others and learn from them.There were fewer hanga artists participating than I had hoped for. I am interested in the Japanese technique of hanga and its near variations My two cents: . Somewhere -- sometime -- maybe once a year -- I would like to see a print exchange for hanga technique only. Theme, size and edition size to be discussed. Like a cutting edge of a To, the focus of a group should be kept sharp. Joe ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:41:43 -0500 Subject: [Baren 8109] Re: charset="iso-8859-1" Lezlie I , too, have an Ettan press. My best friend has one and when I went to visit her 2 years ago we spent 4 days printing. I was in heaven. Loved her Ettan press and when I got home it was the first thing on my agenda. Great press!!!!! Print away!!!! Jeanne Sarah Just bought a fantastic book. It is called simply ; Cats, by Andrew Edney and published by Watson Guptill. 383 colored reproductions of cats in art. You would love it!!!! So far Steinlen has my vote for neat paintings of cats. Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: agatha Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:50:12 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8110] Re: Baren Digest V10 #885 Dave- I just wanted to comment on how you continually amaze me with your tact. I don't post frequently because I am too overwhelmed by all of the others who know so much more than me, but I wanted to take a moment and thank you for putting this forum together. I, for one, do not feel comfortable making demands that the "baren" be a certain way- I am grateful that it is here as a learning resource and support group for me, and I am sure that 99% of the members feel the same way. Thanks, Dave. > by the way, I got just a little depressed when I looked at your friend's > "amateur" calendar. If that calendar is amateur, then I had better just hang up > my hat! What a marvelous calendar! ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:56:15 -0500 Subject: [Baren 8111] Re: So many exchanges! charset="iso-8859-1" When you do not want to read a post , you hit the delete button. That is the way I feel about the exchanges. Since there are over 150 artists in the Baren, there are lots of people to select the exchanges that need participation. If a member feels there are too many then he or she does not have to sign up. They can wait until they are ready and other printmaking projects are out of the way. I have been in all of the exchanges and wait for my turn, when there is space, then I sign up. Some members are excited about the exchanges and thrive under pressure. Indeed some people need the pressure to do their best work. I think they are spaced apart enough to let everyone take part, if they want to. If a member thinks that the quality will somehow diminish by participating, then they should not enter. A lot of the artists are not into commercial art, that is, they do not make a living selling their art, They have jobs and the exchanges are a wonderful respite from their work. Theme exchanges are great but I think they should be spaced every other time to allow the artists to express their own vision. Nuf' said Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: Studio Dalwood Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 07:37:41 +1100 Subject: [Baren 8112] Critical debate When I was at art school we were given an appropriation project. One of the male members of the class chose Picasso's 'artist and model series' from which to work from. Picasso's series was very politically incorrect and clearly illustrated his misogynistic tendencies. The student not only failed to address the issues that were apparent in the work, he repeated the Picasso's pre-feminist practice. He duplicated the drawings substituting himself for Picasso in the images. It was a course requirement that the work be subjected to class review and criticism. What resulted was a large portion of the class pointed out the PC issues and attacked the poor guy for being a sexist pig. There was a lot of discussion about a requirement that he not repeat Picasso's error and that he should have addressed the issues by correcting Picasso's non-Pc actions. The student defended himself and the debate got somewhat heated. As I had been uncharacteristicly quiet through all this the facilitator asked me for my opinion. (I had been enjoying the show). My comment was something along the tune of "I may not agree with what he has to say, but I defend his right to say it". Lead balloons with the class feminists, smile from the facilitator. I suspect, upon reflection, that the facilitator may have encouraged the student to work in this direction in order to encourage debate in the crit sessions. Often these tended to be the same two or three people who had the confidence to state an opinion intespaced with monologues from the facilitator. As the student and teacher were drinking buddies, I think the student was a willing patsy. Or devils advocate, like me. ------------------------------ From: James G Mundie Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:37:56 -0500 Subject: [Baren 8113] thoughts on why we go to the bother Graham wrote: > I don't see a solution as there is no adjudication so it boils down to a > mich mach of work. Mind you it was never started with the idea of a > standard and I have hoped that, by helping in the teaching > department, that the standard would improve through contributions and osmosis. > Am I dreaming? Graham, I find the above statement a bit troubling. It seems that you are saying you find the quality of prints in these exchanges to be sub par, but I intend to argue the contrary. When I first proposed the idea of an exchange among members of this forum, the intention was not that these exchanges should become a showcase of printing mastery, or a cause of stress and friction. Simply, the idea was that a group of cyber acquaintances -- spread out across the globe but united by a common interest in woodblock printmaking -- could pass around actual examples of their own work and thereby further communicate the joy they find in this medium. It was my hope that experienced and accomplished printmakers would stand right up there with their less experienced but enthusiastic counterparts to create an atmosphere conducive to the exchange of ideas and information, and have a nice collection of prints to boot. There was to be an element of surprise to the endeavor, to connect the work with the "voice" on this forum. Everyone stood to gain something by taking part, even if it was just the good feeling one gets from passing along or receiving knowledge. Did all of the prints turn out to be great works of art? Certainly not, but that wasn't the point. Sure, I may flip through a collection and not care for this or that particular print, but I appreciate the effort. Especially for a beginning printmaker who may never have printed more than two or three copies of anything, the courage it takes to commit oneself to making an edition of _thirty_ and offer that work up for scrutiny is considerable. Who would do such a thing if they didn't think they might learn or impart something extremely valuable in the process? And it seems to me that everyone who has participated in one of the exchanges has found it to be an enriching experience. I originally thought the exchanges might be an annual event, but the popularity of these exchanges and the large number of eager printmakers wanting to participate has caused us to evolve the current system. No, it is not perfect, and yes, I too would appreciate a bit more time to fit a new print into my busy life; but no one is compelled to take part -- the exchange is strictly voluntary. However, if one does sign on for an exchange, one is obliged to stand by their commitment and not waffle in and out willy nilly. Twenty-nine others have taken their valuable time and considerable effort to come through on a promise, and it is simply dishonest and negligent not to do so. I would submit that if anyone has the slightest inkling that one cannot fulfill that promise within a reasonable approximation of the allotted time, DO NOT SIGN UP TO PARTICIPATE IN THE EXCHANGE. Make room for someone else who will actually come through. > Sausage factory comes to mind. This implies that everyone is churning out inferior work just to meet a deadline. However, no matter what you or I may think of the end product, most of the participants have put their blood, sweet, tears, and inspiration into those "sausages". I'll gladly slice off a big hearty chunk rather than starve. Furthermore, I ask you to rethink the unworthiness of the endeavor while viewing Exchange #4... if these are low grade, poor quality sausages, then these are the tastiest low grade sausages I have ever eaten. Graham, I didn't intend the above to be a harangue directed squarely at you, but rather at a somewhat troubling sentiment that seems to have been raising its head these past few days. Mise le meas, James Mundie Philadelphia USA http://www.fleisher.org ------------------------------ From: Studio Dalwood Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 08:47:44 +1100 Subject: [Baren 8114] Calendar Mr. Katsumoto Hishiki's calendar is indeed charming. My question is something I have been wondering about since you hinted at a forthcoming baren calendar. Did he carve a block for the days of each month as well as the image block, or are the days added later by another print method, such as gocco? Are these the original prints or did he commision a mass reproduction whereby the days were added by the printer? Josephine ------------------------------ From: "DShack" Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:44:27 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8115] Newbie questions charset="iso-8859-1" I'm working on a single plate monochromatic image, i.e. one pull, and am wondering on the need to wet the paper first. I'm using mulberry paper, with speedball waterbased inks. The image is a little fuzzy and not as dense as I'd like. The first one I did of this image was on dry mulberry paper and the image was crisp and black. >From reading, the reason for wetting the paper is to let it expand to keep it in registration for multiple pulls. Are there other reasons? Dwight ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:35:09 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8116] Re: Council matters and nifty prints ... >difficult decision for Dave, and now that he has received a few negative >comments, I thought it would be a good idea to let him know that he has my >complete support. Jack I am certainly for the diveying up of tasks. Burnout came come pretty quick and it would be ashame to have this happen to Dave or anyone here.... I'm did not take is as negative comments so much as probing and putting questions in the form of a statement..... if that is possible. No harm done at any rate. Onwardandeverupward. Graham ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:43:13 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8117] Re: Calendar >Mr. Katsumoto Hishiki's calendar is indeed charming. My question is >something I have been wondering about since you hinted at a forthcoming >baren calendar. Did he carve a block for the days of each month as well >as the image block, or are the days added later by another print method, >such as gocco? > >Are these the original prints or did he commision a mass reproduction >whereby the days were added by the printer? Josephine If you go to the bottom of the index page it will answer all your questions..... Graham ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:47:32 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8118] Re: Baren Digest V10 #885 Agatha wrote.... >> by the way, I got just a little depressed when I looked at your friend's >> "amateur" calendar. If that calendar is amateur, then I had better just >>hang up >> my hat! What a marvelous calendar! Ummmmmm.... Throwing in your hat will not enable you to reach those skill plateaus Lots of work will..... but then you already knew that.... Graham ps Hey if the hat trick works let me know immediately..... ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:56:43 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8119] Re: So many exchanges! Jeanne N. wrote.... > Some members are excited about the exchanges and thrive under pressure. >Indeed some people need the pressure to do their best work. > I think they are spaced apart enough to let everyone take part, if they >want to. If a member thinks that the quality will somehow diminish by >participating, then they should not enter. > A lot of the artists are not into commercial art, that is, they do not make >a living selling their art, They have jobs and the exchanges are a wonderful >respite from their work. >Theme exchanges are great but I think they should be spaced every other time >to allow the artists to express their own vision. >Nuf' said Some good thoughts here....however------ Here is a better one .... If you need to be under pressure or deadlines to do your best then I suggest you commit to a one person or small group show and go to it..... Three things that are better about it. You will probably make a buck or two, puts you name into the public forum in your territory, and reach skill plateaus. Exchanges do not do any of this. ------------------------------ From: michael schneider Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 01:17:05 +0100 Subject: [Baren 8120] Re: Newbie questions DShack wrote: > I'm working on a single plate monochromatic image, i.e. one pull, and am > wondering on the need to wet the paper first. > > I'm using mulberry paper, with speedball waterbased inks. The image is a > little fuzzy and not as dense as I'd like. The first one I did of this > image was on dry mulberry paper and the image was crisp and black. > > >From reading, the reason for wetting the paper is to let it expand to keep > it in registration for multiple pulls. Are there other reasons? > > Dwight Are you sure that the sizing of your paper is strong enough? michael ------------------------------ From: Maria Arango Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:39:50 -0800 Subject: [Baren 8121] Re: thoughts on why we go to the bother I personally think of the exchanges as a venue to present my work to 29 of my toughest critics, my peers. I was terrified of participating in the first one and I received both high praise and helpful comments from respected members of Baren. It helped me grow to see the other artist's prints, it helped me want to be better. In subsequent exchanges I find myself trying much harder to come up with as good a finished product than with my non-exchange prints. I figure I owe it to my peers. Here are some additional thoughts on exchanges from another source (Jim Horton, WEN Block & Burin, Autumn 99), which echo my own sentiment. "A Bundle (Exchange) is a packet of prints, or a "non-electric" show that comes to your door. They are not intended for sale or speculation. They are meant for people to share the joy of printmaking with others who know and appreciate what went into production. We have many levels of expertise represented. There are established professionals along with beginners. There are a few who appreciate prints, but don't practice printmaking themselves. We hope the Bundles are a means of education. we do not publicly judge or criticize the work that is contributed, though we are always open to comments, and certainly, individual contacts can be made to these artists with your more personal comments and ideas. We avoid politics...just the love of seeing ink on paper that came from an artist's hand. Sometimes we are awed by the quality of the work. Sometimes we learn from the rawness of a "Beginner's mind" as teh Zen masters call it, that hasn't been influenced by standard practices and shows the exciting marks of experimentation. "A print is the halfway point between a thing and a thought," as Fritz Eichenberg once said. To hold it close to the eye, and see the artist's intimate journey of creation is no small thing. (Omission)--It is a rare and valued thing--perhaps more so than ever." Ju nin, To iro Maria - -- <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maria Arango, Printmaker The Printmaking Studio http://www.printmakingstudio.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: Mary Krieger Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:50:19 -0600 Subject: [Baren 8122] Re: Newbie questions DShack wrote: > I'm working on a single plate monochromatic image, i.e. one pull, and am > wondering on the need to wet the paper first. > > I'm using mulberry paper, with speedball waterbased inks. The image is a > little fuzzy and not as dense as I'd like. The first one I did of this > image was on dry mulberry paper and the image was crisp and black. Dwight, I believe Speedball waterbased ink was developed to print on dry paper not on dampened paper. It is a replacement for the oil based ink usually used in the traditional method developed in Europe. If you like the way it looks on dry paper, don't dampen your printing paper. In the hanga method, no 'ink' is used. Starch paste and pigment suspended in water are mixed directly on the block. Dampened paper is required in this method. Michael's suggestion to check the sizing of your paper is a good one if you generally prefer to print damp. Well sized paper prevents pigment bleeding which might cause the fuzziness. I recall some fairly thorough discussions about sizing on Baren probably about a year ago now. The paper might also be too damp. It can be pretty tricky to get just right. It will probably be helpful for you to check out some more of the encyclopedia. Good luck with your explorations Mary Krieger ------------------------------ From: michael schneider Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 01:57:35 +0100 Subject: [Baren 8123] Re: Council matters and nifty prints ... <200002010858.RAA25444@ml.xx.or.jp> <200002012331.IAA42676@ml.xx.or.jp> Graham Scholes wrote: > >difficult decision for Dave, and now that he has received a few negative > >comments, I thought it would be a good idea to let him know that he has my > >complete support. > > Jack > I am certainly for the diveying up of tasks. Burnout came come pretty > quick and it would be ashame to have this happen to Dave or anyone here.... > I'm did not take is as negative comments so much as probing and putting > questions in the form of a statement..... if that is possible. No harm > done at any rate. > > Onwardandeverupward. > > Graham Jack, if your post does point into my direction, be assured that my statements were critical but not "negative". In my opinion, David started the most interesting forum for woodblock printers since "xylon international" somehow "burned out". Maybe I am too strongly influenced by all the political discussion about the EU and the ever present question about growing. But, a.) If a group starts to grow, it shows that there is a good idea and enough interest around. b.) Growth results in a more complicated structure of organization. c.) If the structure of the organization and the pace of the growth do not run hand in hand we have a problem. d.) If the structure of the organization does not meet the necessities to maintain the strength of the original idea the problem is getting even bigger. I want to see the successful growth of baren and that's why I see no way around a more sorrow discussion of the needs, the basic idea and the therefore best suiting structure for baren. michael ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:16:01 -1000 Subject: [Baren 8124] Re: Council matters and nifty prints ... <200002010858.RAA25444@ml.xx.or.jp> <200002012331.IAA42676@ml.xx.or.jp> <200002020051.JAA41780@ml.xx.or.jp> michael schneider wrote: > > > Jack, > > if your post does point into my direction, be assured that my statements were > critical but not "negative". In my opinion, David started the most interesting > forum for woodblock printers... > > I want to see the successful growth of baren and that's why I see no way around > a more sorrow discussion of the needs, the basic idea and the therefore best > suiting structure for baren. No, my post did not point in your direction, as your concern for the growth of Baren is posted in a very helpful and reflective manner. There is, I hope, always room for thoughtful discussion on the direction that Baren might grow, as long as that discussion does not overwhelm the technical discussions of actual cutting and printing! Jack ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V10 #886 ****************************