[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest              Monday, 29 November 1999      Volume 09 : Number 800

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Cucamongie@aol.com
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 08:51:57 EST
Subject: [Baren 6857] Columbia college-Chicago 

Amanda, if I'm not mistaken, Columbia College also offers printmaking, so 
they're certainly worth checking out.  I'd check out U. of Iowa too.
Happy birthday Baren!  This forum is great!
Best wishes to all,
Sarah

------------------------------

From: judy mensch <mensch@interport.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 10:07:32 -0500
Subject: [Baren 6858] Re: Columbia college-Chicago 

Also, check out Tyler School of Art, Temple University in Philadelphia
and San Francisco Art Institute.  Happy Birthday Baren.  Judy

------------------------------

From: Mary Krieger <mkrieger@mb.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 09:26:55 -0600
Subject: [Baren 6859] Re: Thanks for Info 

Hi all

Detail on the packaging tape solution from Mary Krieger.

I leave a border of wood around the image as it make it
easier to use registration guides to keep the paper in the
right position for printing. I use oil based ink and roll 
up with a brayer. I could never get movable masks to stay
where they were supposed to or stay clean or not rip - but
I can be a clumsy and impatient person.

I used to carve this all away - time consuming and still
the brayer would dip in and leave little marks that I
wouldn't notice until I had printed too many. Now I carve
a channel around the image area. When I am ready to print,
I use packaging tape to cover this area.

Packaging tape is a very glossy plastic type tape about 2
inches wide. It comes in clear and and a 'disgusting
brown'. Shippers use it to seal boxes. It is usually
loaded into 'tape guns', hand held dispensers sold
separately. It is cheap, easily available - in Canada at
office supply stores under shipping materials. I don't use
the tape gun. I just pull the tape off the roll and cut it
with scissors.

If any ink gets on the tape, I use a cloth rag to wipe it
off. Even if the brayer leaves a large swath of ink. it
easily wipes off the smooth surface of the tape. There is
virtually no thickness to the tape so even if you are
printing on a press there is no embossment of the paper.
You apply the tape once just before printing. I have never
had the roller lift this type of tape. The only part I
have to be careful with is applying the tape smoothly as
any wrinkles tend to catch the ink.

Mary Krieger

------------------------------

From: B Mason <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 08:42:06 -0800
Subject: [Baren 6861] Papermaking 

Sarah,
You might consider the Uof Oregon, They have an excellent printmaking
department and Peggy Prentice who runs it is one of the original sisters
of Twin Rocker Paper, so they must be making paper. I know Peggy has a
paper making studio at home with a hollander.
Barbara

------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 13:48:41 -0800
Subject: [Baren 6862] Re: Border 

Barbara wrote....
> The other ways work also, but that mask of acetate or
>paper is really a hassel and I find it is just really in my way when I
>roll out ink.

Use the acetate *after* you ink the plate.
If the acetate is taped along one edge it easily hinges up out of the way.
After inking......drop it down protecting the area and print...works like a
whistle.

Graham

------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 14:23:51 -0800
Subject: [Baren 6863] Re: printing with aluminum 

Dave wrote....
>I was speaking on the phone a while ago with another printmaker over
>there in 'norto amerika', and was surprised to hear that he too was
>using the same brush for different colours.

Norto amerika....canada .... is more accurate...
I'ze the guy Dave is referring to.  I thinks so, as I remember a
conversation of this nature and I was surprice that the number of brushes
was over the 10  or 15 mark and that Dave used a brush for each colour
..... and he has 60 of these little babies.....  I now have 19 having just
purchase some more.

I will probably never own that many for the simple reason I will never
print as many pieces of paper in my life time as David....  I do so many
other kinds of image making, that my time is taken up with drawing,
painting and sculpture.  I therefore am not faced with wearing out a brush
through use.

I can certainly relate to what Dave is saying.... <(when that particular
colour is needed they last much
>longer than brushes that are in constant use)>. That reminds me about my
>philosophy in regards to painting brushes.....  I must have 200+ and
>always of the mind that if I don't have to wash out the pigment every time
>I changed colours I could save on the cost of pigment because of using
>many brushes and not wasting the expensive pigment.     It works for me.

So I guess it boils down to the amount of printmaking one does.

Graham

------------------------------

From: B Mason <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 09:53:06 -0800
Subject: [Baren 6864] Re: Border 

Hi Graham,
You are assuming you are printing by hand with a baren, this won't work with a
press. I would be one more hassel and with my luck would move when I dropped
the paper or blankets. I vote for tape, it works every time. You can leave it
on if using clear tape or pull it off every time if using artist's tape or
masking tape. I do the latter, but I am sure the clear tape would work. Sorry
to disagree on this one, but you know how stubborn I am.
Barbara

------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 10:13:59 -0800
Subject: [Baren 6865] Re: border 

>And a third advantage, a very big one, is that unlike the paper and
>mylar masks, it has essentially no thickness, and thus does not
>interfere with the impression on the rest of the plate.

The thickness can be an plus....if you want to have a nice subtle blind
debossed border, the mask of .010 acetate  can give you this effect.   You
would have to position it accurately

I bet you guys already figured that out )<"

Graham

------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 10:28:21 -0800
Subject: [Baren 6866] Re: Border 

Barbara wrote....
>You are assuming you are printing by hand with a baren,

No I am referring to a press....
I had no problem with the technique....

Well as they say.... different masks for different tasks.
and..... different strokes for different folks.....
Now who is different here ..... you or me?

Have a better day.

Graham

How's the ankle....

------------------------------

From: Bryan James <bryan.james@alliedpress.co.nz>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 09:17:58 +1300
Subject: [none]

Hello bareners from the last bus stop (i.e New Zealand's
South Island).
I've been following the correspondence on masking with
great interest and some suggestions have been valuable.
For what it is worth, this is what I do:
I use oil-based inks on about half my prints, particularly
when I want to achieve dense colour effects. The problem
of tiny smudges or slight points of colour where they're
not wanted is essentially a cutting problem, I believe.
That is, the gutters between raised printing areas have
not been cut deeply enough, or smoothly enough. When the
roller is applied, especially when somewhat larger areas
of colour are bring printed, there is always the risk of
inadvertently making these slight imperfections, and
unless you have youthful eyesight, it's often difficult to
pick them up until the print has been printed!
For myself, I keep every scrap of paper and use  torn
strips as temporary masks, just dropping them into the
"gutters" when I think they might be needed, and replacing
them with each impression. It seems to work well enough.
I quite like Dave's idea (was it Dave?) of a strip of tape
alongside the border that can be lifted and bent back but
I've yet to try it. While the glossy parcel tape sounds an
excellent idea, it's hell to use if you're a large and
clumsy Anglo-saxon male because it is so sticky. But then,
we bareners are extraordinarily patient people, aren't
we?? I'd like to suggest another type of tape, called here
bookbinders' tape, which is cloth backed, very sticky, but
very flexible which is its chief advantage.
Another tip I've found with long experience arises from
the vital necessity to use different brushes for each
colour when you're using water-based inks, Now, applying
the same principle to oil-based inks, have you considered
different sized rollers? I have a range of them, from
about 1 inch wide to perhaps 8 or 9 inches, but mostly I
use the ones between 3 inches and 5 inches. There are two
advantages: by matching (more or less) the roller size to
those parts of the block you wish to print in a particular
colour you can generally avoid blemishes; and if you are
using lighter colours, then it is certainly best not to
use rollers that have previously been used to print darker
colours. In short: keep a range of rollers for light
colours, and a range for dark, for however well you clean
your rollers, it will not be possible to avoid slight
discolouration when you try to print a light ink off a
(cleaned) roller that has previously been used for dark
coloured ink.
Another little tip for those of you using oil-based inks
that are stored in tins rather than tubes. An old printer
told me when I was a nipper that the best way of stopping
inks in tins from getting a dried crust on top - which
happens even with the lid closed - is to pour a little
water into the tin. It sits on top of the ink and provides
an airtight seal. When you come to use the ink, just pour
the water off first. It works, believe me.
Regards to all,
Bryan James.

------------------------------

From: Josephine Severn <severn@acay.com.au>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 19:42:05 +1100
Subject: [Baren 6868] Birthdays 

Dave
Congrats on two good years.

I've only been here a couple of months but put me in the category that
would be lost without baren. I rarely leave the house and this group is
a godsend in providing contact with other printmakers.

I just upgraded my browser and html is probably ok for me but I cant
help thinking of someone, somewhere, on an old pc who needs baren and
would not be able to join in if you upgraded to html. Keep it accessable
to the lowest common denominator, for that one person who may be out
there, please.

I understand where you are coming from with your comment about splitting
the group, please dont. The cross discussion across methods is always
instructive, we are too segmented in life as it is.

After two months I am already feeling a bit overloaded with the amount
of work it takes to maintain a website. You amaze me with baren, the
fact that it is two years work makes it understandable. If I could help
I would, but cant. I'll  keep promoting the site though.

Josephine

------------------------------

From: "Jean Eger" <jeaneger@LanMinds.Com>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 05:51:55 +0900
Subject: [Baren 6869]

For applying oil based ink to a masked off area...I have seeen pictures of
"daubers" which are made of leather, but have never actually used one.

Jean Eger

------------------------------

From: B Mason <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 13:11:16 -0800
Subject: [Baren 6870] Welcom bryan 

Bryan,
Nice to know New Zealand is represented on Baren. You message came in
very wide (is that the right term?) I had to keep scrolling to the right
to read it. Is that just my computer or did anyone else have this
problem?
I hate water in my ink, but know this does work. I just use those waxed
paper things or little rounds of plastic cut for the purpose. Since I do
large monotypes, I use the ink up pretty fast, have to buy the basic
colors about three times a year, so it hardly has a chance to dry out. I
have used plastic wrap when I seal the cans and that helpsto open them,
but doesn't really do much for keeping the ink from drying out.

Dave,
I just revisited the print show at the Portland Art Museum again and
looked at some contemporary Japanese prints. They were about 20"x30" and
had huge areas of flat color, very even gradations from dark at the top
to lighter in the center and dark at the bottom. How do they do this on
such a huge block and keep it wet enough to print? Are they printing the
top and then the bottom at a separate time? I can hardly control it on a
small block. Is this just practice, or are they using something in their
ink to keep it from drying so fast? If so what is it. Is this the glue I
was reading about in the archives?
Barbara

------------------------------

From: B Mason <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 13:13:31 -0800
Subject: [Baren 6871] 

Jean,
I have friends that do etchings and they use small rolled rounds of felt for
daubers and it works well for them. I usually use a small roller, I hate
getting my hands in the ink any more than necessary.
Barbara

------------------------------

From: Vollmer/Yamaguchi <jy6@columbia.edu>
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 16:15:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Baren 6872] Toddler 

Happy Birthday, baren! I can't believe it's two years! Sometimes I think I
spend a lot of time on this forum, but it has certainly been good to me! I
agree with Maria that there's nothing like meeting in person, though,
something the internet cannot come close to. And Baren has made that
possible, too! Meeting California printmakers when travelling, and having
Bea and Barbara come to my class last summer were great Baren benefits!

Dave you are the best webmaster, I enjoyed your thoughtful birthday
message. I can't volunteer to help with the website, as I havn't even
figured out how to update my own yet. I certainly am in favor of
exhibitions, and I helped paint a wall to prove it. Pursuing the commercial
possibilities of the internet interestes me, but I'm not sure how it would
work. Dave has worked out a great system for selling his prints that would
work on line, but the situation is different for each of the members. For
me, Baren has been useful just pointing to my website, so people can get an
idea of my work and contact me if they are interested.

I hope we won't have to fragment into groups, as I hate to miss anything,
though I have to admit I couldn't handle much more e-mail than I already
get. I didn't sign up for BA5 for just that reason, not because I don't
enjoy a good Guiness once in a while.

I'm a little unclear about the two places to upload woodcut info, the
bulletin board and the events board.... they seem to overlap somewhat. I
love the idea of sharing materials, it seems like a lot of work for the
member involved. Count me in for buying stuff, though, I am grateful to
have more of the special Japanese supplies available.

And Maria, I would love to meet in Las Vegas to print, it sounds totally
insane!

A round of applause for Dave's work these last two years!!! Thank you,
thank you!

April Vollmer

------------------------------

From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 15:23:46 -0600
Subject: [Baren 6873] re: Woodcuts by Gaugin 

Just picked up a book on woodcuts by french artist Paul GAUGIN.

The book is tittled "Gaugin Woodcuts" by Dr. Libuse Sykorova ( London,1963).
The book is quite a detailed history of 11 of Gaugin's woodblocks created during
his second visit to Oceania (1895-1903). Carved on misc. pieces of soft wood
extracted from furniture & crates; the woodcuts were salvaged by an admiring
young Slovak astronomer visiting the islands in 1910 and found among natives
still holding some of Gaugin's artifacts sold at public auction after his death
(Gaugin died destitute, alone and forsaken by family and friends and his
possesions were sold at public auction to pay a fine to which the artist  had
been sentenced prior to his death in 1903).

The blocks became part of the Czechoslvak state in 1951 after the owners death
and were re-printed in 1961 ( by  artist Janus Kubicek) in an effort to document
Gaugin's work before further damage to the woodcuts would make reprints
impossible. The soft wood was greatly damaged by insects, careless printing and
time itself. Only a handful of original prints exist from these blocks, mostly
in private collections.

If you are interested in woodcuts, I encourage to try to get a look at this
book. Not only the "new" prints are full-size and expertly made (considering the
sad condition of the cuts), but also fine "full-sized" detailed photographs of
each of the eleven blocks (some double-sided) are included which show the
artists unique handprint and style. The author goes on great detail as far as
woodblock condition, crude tools used for carving and exisitng wood damage. It
is more of a book about the blocks themselves than about the artist.

Julio

------------------------------

From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 15:57:56 -0600
Subject: [Baren 6874] re: Misc. 

Just some short comments here....

Jean E..  very nice work on your exchange #3 print !!! Loved your border.......

I second April's comments......Thanks very much Dave for a great two years.

Did I read correctly ?....a Ray Esposito sighting in Oregon ? What gives
Barbara???? Is that the Ray in the photo ?

Re events, postings: I would like to see more info on upcoming events/shows
posted in Baren. We usually only hear about a show after someone wins a
price/award  or has been accepted to an already closed show . The only way we
can get prints (specially woodblocks) back into the main stream is by us the
printmakers contributing in mass to shows, exhibitions etc. Let's advertise
ourselves and get our prints out in the public so that instead of just one or
two prints per show we actually can stand on even ground with the other media
and the computer artists. Only when our output is seen and appreciated by many
can we all start to benefit . Is it not what printmaking is all about ? Making
multiples for the enjoyment of many ? There is room for all of us outhere. I am
currently looking for shows open for late winter & spring.  Anyone ?

Maria mentioned a possible Baren exchange exhibit in Vegas. Great, Go for it!.
I am awaiting the arrival of Exchange #3 to proceed with the details for the
spring Baren exhibit I mentioned a while back. I am looking to put on display at
the Skokie Public Library of approx. 40-50 prints selected from the first four
exchanges to include at least one print per participating members. More news to
follow.

At this I am reluctant to offer to help and takeover any one aspect of Baren on
a long term basis as I don't own a personal computer or even have personal
internet access.  It may seem silly, but twenty two years in the field of
computer analysis and programming will do that to you!

Thanks......Julio

------------------------------

From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 07:55:06 +0900
Subject: [Baren 6876] Re: Happy Birthday ... 

Maria wrote:
> ... we should take
> full advantage of the fact that Dave's site probably gets more hits than
> any other site belonging to a Baren member.

This gave me the incentive to take a read-out of the woodblock.com
logfiles, which I haven't been doing lately ...  Here are a couple of
quick stats (1999 year to date):

Successful requests for pages: 264,555
Average successful requests for pages per day: 806 
Data transferred: 4,285,000,000,000 bytes ...

Note that the figure of 264,555 is not actually 'hits', as in different
people visiting.  It indicates 'pages' served; if for example you visit
woodblock.com, and look in the [Baren] archives at a couple of digests, 
each one of those digests will count as one 'page' in this counter.  

But hey, a quarter of a million pages?  Hoo-Wee!

***

Josephine wrote (re HTML):
> html is probably ok for me but I cant help thinking of someone, 
> somewhere, on an old pc who needs baren and would not be able to 
> join in if you upgraded to html. 

No such worry.  Messages would go out in 'multipart/alternative' format,
which also includes a section of 'plain text' for those with
'challenged' email readers.

***

Barbara wrote (re Bryan's messages):
> Your message came in very wide (is that the right term?) 
> I had to keep scrolling to the right to read it

When you receive messages like that Barbara, just ask your mail program
to 'Wrap Long lines'.  In my Netscape mail reader for example, this
command is easily accessible up in the menu bar ...

For Bryan: if you can figure it out, there is probably a setting in your
email program preferences that will let you set the line length of your
messages.  60 characters per line is one common setting ...

***

April wrote:
> I'm a little unclear about the two places to upload woodcut info, the
> bulletin board and the events board.... they seem to overlap somewhat.

It's 'Before' and 'After' April!

Info on your upcoming events belongs on the 'Message Board' (also known
as 'Show & Tell'), where there really isn't room for much more than a
nutshell description and a tiny photo or two. Listings here will be
deleted when 'stale'.

Reports about finished events belong in the 'Events and Activities'
section of the web site, where there is room for lots of photos and
descriptions. Nothing gets deleted from this section ...

***

Barbara wrote:
> some contemporary Japanese prints. They were about 20"x30" and
> had huge areas of flat color, very even gradations from dark at the top
> to lighter in the center and dark at the bottom. How do they do this on
> such a huge block and keep it wet enough to print? 

They work _very_ quickly and use _very_ large brushes - a common brush
length for work like this being about 8~9 inches long.


> Are they printing the top and then the bottom at a separate time? 

Without knowing what you're looking at, it is difficult to say, but
probably yes, nobody will try to control two large gradations at the
same time ...

> Is this just practice, or are they using something in their
> ink to keep it from drying so fast? 

No extenders Barbara, absolutely none.  Again, I assume that what you
are looking at are 'hanga' prints - I can't speak of what people are
doing with oil and press. But the sizes you mention, although larger
than most common prints, don't sound all that much out of line, even for
hanga work.

This is an important aspect of printmaking that I feel that I have
communicated very badly on this forum.  You people may be looking at me
(and my work) with a fair amount of respect and admiration, but you
should perhaps realize that compared to the experienced traditional
printers here I am nothing.  And I mean nothing.  I'm not trying to be
modest either.  You have to see one of these guys in action to believe
it.  And even then, you wouldn't believe what you were seeing.

It's like watching a human printing press in action - sheet after sheet
after sheet flies by ... the brush swishing around, the baren skimming
over the paper ... the wide smooth colours ...  Ten copies ... twenty
... fifty ... a hundred ... two hundred ...   I've even seen
Matsuzaki-san working on runs of 3,000 prints ...

Speaking from their basically technical point of view (which is they way
they see this), when they look at the sort of printmaking that we
[Baren] members are doing, they must just be thinking ... 'kindergarten'
...  (They are too polite to say this out loud, of course!)

Please understand that I'm not trying to insult anyone by saying this.
But if you had seen some of the men and the work that I've seen, you
will not feel insulted.  You will feel ... I hope ... challenged! This
craft that we're involved with is capable of incredible heights of
expression and achievement.  Not one of us in this group, no matter how
long we live or how hard we work, will ever come even remotely close to
approaching the astonishing heights that were scaled in days gone past. 
The world has simply changed too much. The best example of this is what
you are doing right now - reading your email.  Waste of time.  Get back
to your bench - and stay there ten hours a day, seven days a week like
the old guys did.  Then, and _only then_, will you start to approach
their skills.

It's a tradeoff, obviously.  You can be that good ... or you can 'have a
life'.  You can't have both.  Back in the old days they had no choice, 
but you and I have chosen to have a wider, more 'well-rounded' life. 

Can you have a family, friends, do other things with your life ... and
_still_ be able to have the skill to make smooth gradations three feet
wide, on two hundred copies?  That's a most interesting question ... one
that I think about a lot ...


But that's enough 'life' for me for now.  Back to the blocks ...

Dave

------------------------------

From: amoss@mindspring.com (John Amoss)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 1999 23:24:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Baren 6877] matt's bench 

Hello y'all-
After recently printing with a very sore arm, I realized that I will need
to improve my working conditions. I was looking at Elizabeth's pictures of
Matt's hanga demonstration:
<http://www.woodblock.com/forum/activities/activity_frame.html> and was
left wanting some more information about his neat-o printing ensemble.

Now that my arm IS feeling well enough to raise it and ask Matt (along with
the other hanga dudes and dudettes):

Could you share more about your immediate work area- specifically the
printing and carving desks? I am interested in constructing one of my own
and would appreciate any input on the subject.

One question I have is whether the traditional carving desk (which slants
toward the carver) could be rotated so that it becomes a printing table
(which slants away)?

Also, how does one decide on the height of the table? (how much bend in the
elbow while printing for maximum pressure, etc.).

Thanks to all. Now it's back to the blocks for me too.

- -John Amoss

------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V9 #800
***************************