[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Thursday, 26 August 1999 Volume 08 : Number 677 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Lockyear Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:15:29 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5409] Re: design, cut, print > New member Brian made an interesting posting (Welcome, Brian) Thanks Dave. As per the advice on the web page I'd been watching for a week or so before jumping in... by then I couldn't resist joining in :-) Plus I had to start racking up points for the Silly Season raffle! (Although I don't know now that folks have pointed out those extra toes...) I do apologize to all for suddenly appearing out of nowhere in the middle of your debate. Sort of like doing a cannonball into the middle of the swimming pool. Okay, so, intro: My name is Brian Lockyear, my day job is being a software designer in Portland Oregon. By night I take art classes and have been making prints for about a year and a half. On the question of using computers in art... I actually have a bachelor's degree in Electrical Engineering and a PhD in Computer Science so I avoid using computers in making my artwork like the plague. I want to do things with my hands. But they are a very powerful tool for sure. I haven't joined email forums in the past but was drawn to this one because of my growing love of woodblock printing (and my lack of friends with a similar interest!). I like the politness and mutual respect in this group. And I'm fascinated to see all the work that is being posted. Very beautiful! I'm in on the self portrait exchange and if you have the new McClains catalogue around, Elaine was nice enough to put two of my prints in there. (One is in fact a self portrait too but the next will have to have longer hair). Wanda: Your collaboration idea reminds me of the old game of "gossip"! Each person in the line whispers a message to the next who trys to repeat it as he heard it. But at the end it is something completely different than what started out! It could be great fun. ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne N. Chase" Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:19:51 -0400 Subject: [Baren 5410] Re: Collaboration (To Cut or Not to Cut)... Collaboration sounds like a great idea , until I think that perhaps I would be the one to do the carving. That is the most difficult part for me. The design is the part that I would love to do. Maybe we could send around a drawing first. All who would like to enter then could do some of the drawing, the next person add to it, on and on. Then we could take turns doing the carving. THAT would be a collaboration!!!! Let.s see. We could do the fun part and Dave could do ALL of the carving. Hmmmm?? What a conundrum (sic) I think I will go back to work after that profound entry. Jeanne ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:24:19 -0400 Subject: [Baren 5413] Re: perception disorder georga, Graham, and all, If you go into the kitchen to fix dinner, put a roast in the oven, start cooking your side dishes, set the table, and in an hour, say, call the family down to dinner, and discover you seasoned the roast with the wrong seasoning, that was an interesting mistake. Move on, eat the roast, and maybe it'll actually be a pleasant new discovery for the palate. If however, you sit the family down, put all the dishes out, and then pull the roast out of the oven and it's raw, because you forgot to turn the oven on, what have you got? Are you going to grin and eat this raw roast because accidents will happen? Are you going to pretend you meant it to be that way? Are you going to say you've created a new style of cooking? Or are you going to own up to the fact that you made a mistake, and just call out for a pizza? georga said, > i hope i never get so good that i dont make mistakes > because that will mean that im producing a formula or assembly line type > work... Graham said, > Not me Gary....mine are perfect. (Referring to his prints) So georga, what does this mean, that Graham is producing formula prints??? ;) Graham, first you expound on the virtues of screwing up, then you say you're perfect. Are you saying that if you screw up long enough, you get to be perfect? Also, are you condoning carelessness in workmanship and attempting to pass it off as "experimentation"? I await your ripostes. Gary ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:26:54 -0500 Subject: [Baren 5414] Re: Collaboration (To Cut or Not to Cut)...and Gloves off Well, it looks like we have another little "spat" on our hands. As an old-time Barener and survivor of many of these scrimmages during the last two years I should warn all the new members to not worry. Is all good natured fun. This is not the first time this topic has been approached (or probably the last!) and it's just one of a handful of good discussion topics that "rattle" our brains and gets our adrenalin pumping when things get a little slow. If my memory serves me right.....last good one was about computer art (?)..or was it about mechanical reproductions ? Where is Ray Esposito when we need some old-fashioned tongue-lashing ? Is good to see the boys having fun AGAIN! About this pass around print, sounds like a good time, how about a different spin. What if Dave picks out a raw design in black & white, very raw, few details, and everyone in the exchange is allowed to interpret the design to their own liking ? I guess this does not fill the bill as "colaboration" but it would be an interesting idea to see how we all interpret the same subject matter. Sort of like a class exercise........ Thanks........Julio ------------------------------ From: Sherpsm@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:42:46 EDT Subject: [Baren 5415] Re: perception disorder Collaboration and other subjects Yes, Picasso changed the face of the western art world. But didn't Picasso draw heavily from the work of traditional African sculptors? In my opinion he did did get quite self indulgent and made a few pot boilers. Gauguin rebelled against the Academy dominated world. While he collected and admired Japanese woodblocks there was no way he could have achieved their technical expertise. The Japanese print is an artistic and technical tradition that grew into a collaborative process. Were they a mere reproduction of a watercolor? No. Each image was designed to be carved and printed. Each print was prepared and printed with time honored techniques. Techniques which resulted in something far more than a watercolor. The need for individual marks were quite unnecessary. The collaborated image superseded the individuals that crafted it. It was a seamless technique. I want my work to be my own, to witness my hand, my style but I would want it to be as technically proficient as well. Mistakes will be of my vision, hand and choices, but hopefully not due to undisciplined cutting, or printing. Is the collaborative process a mere reproduction or formula printing process? The techniques of the Japanese printmakers of the 20th century had reached a very high state. The artists, Goyo, Jacoulet, Yoshida and Hausi, could count on that and pushed their art further. Now it seems the technique and the discipline are out of fashion. The disciplie of this printing process can be part of its beauty. I think perhaps the Jacoulet, Hasui and Yoshida prints viewed today look too good, too slick, too disciplined, too beautiful. At the time they were produced was there a Western technique that compared to it? Is there today? If a singer moves you, it is partly God given talent and a lot of work. You are moved because you are not aware of their technique. You do not hear them "work. " If a singer is undisciplined, lazy would you pay to listen to those notes? Computer art - It is great. There are some amazing things being done today and it all generates from the human brain. It is a vision of art and technical skill, a collaboation. Can I ask how many of you that saw the current Star Wars film or the Pixlar (sorry Pixar) films bothered to watch the credits? All those artists and technicians working in the same anonymity that those Japanese carvers and printers did. Like the print artists and publishers of Japan all we remember are the big names; Lucas and Disney. Joe ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:07:37 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5416] Amen. Gary, I don't have time for this nonesense.. Dave named it right when he called it Silly Season Strikes Graham ps This reminds me of bumper stickers..... I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder. Everyone has a photographic memory. Some don't have film. Out of my mind. Back in five minutes. ------------------------------ From: Aqua4tis@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:07:41 EDT Subject: [Baren 5417] Re: perception disorder first off gary or graham can i have some gloves???? i think i need to put them on...... or do i need to take them off??? i understand what youre saying gary and before you start a fight between graham and i i think we both know that graham was joking right graham??? i conceed that there is a difference between artistic mistakes and just plain goof ups but i also say that i would not want to be the one to make the judgement of which was which look at the woodcuts of the german expressionists again my opinion, georga ------------------------------ From: "Jean Eger" Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:27:35 +0900 Subject: [Baren 5420] Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 My best prints have been the most spontaneous ones, with the least planning. They were made using the knife as if it were a pencil or pen. Yet I still strive, compulsively, for mechanical perfection, which simply doesn't work well for me. Also I don't have the cutting or printing skill that it takes to achieve "perfection" in execution. So I am in favor of "errors," whatever that means. Jean Eger ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:59:45 -0400 Subject: [Baren 5421] Amen. Graham, I don't seem to agree with you much, but darn, you do have good bumper stickers! I particularly liked this one: >There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't.< Yes, "Silly Season" is appropriately named. Dave probably regrets now ever uttering the idea. Gary ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:33:17 -0400 Subject: [Baren 5422] Re: perception disorder Julio, welcome back into the fray. I think our last fireball topic was Abstract Art, wasn't it? If this is getting boring for folks, why doesn't somebody jump in with another topic? Give Graham and I a break. I think his gloves are wearing out. (Perhaps he needs to switch to oven mitts since the heat is getting to be a little much for him. :) Gary ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:43:10 +0900 Subject: [Baren 5424] Re: Collaboration (To Cut or Not to Cut)... Wanda wrote: > You know, this collaboration idea is an interesting "what if" ... Yes a most interesting 'what if' indeed. I've read through this morning's batch of interesting postings, and have been thinking about how it might work. Gary also wrote: >why doesn't somebody jump in with another topic? Well, I must be crazy for encouraging this lunacy, but hop over to: http://woodblock.com/forum/collaborations.html ... and let me know what you think. Dave ------------------------------ From: Wanda Robertson Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:09:48 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5425] Re: Collaboration (To Cut or Not to Cut)... Ah yes, great minds............., so to speak! I've thought all day about how the heck one would arrange such a thing on an almost world-wide basis. Now I'll go see what you've come up with. I must admit however it would be done, it still sounds like a heck of a lot of fun. Wanda Oh my gosh - I'm back from looking at your rough draft - so I get the credit/blame? I'm falling off my chair laughing, your take on it is so - hmmm what's the word here? - humorous? hesitant? loony? LOONY? There's a theme for you. Somehow I can't see something so innocuous as "control" causing Baren to fall apart - I mean we agree to disagree almost every day. Too much fun. I [think/hope/am afraid] we could do this! ------------------------------ From: "Gregory D. Valentine" Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baren 5426] Re: Collaboration / Reiteration I remember my instructor taking a block I had cut and printed, and using the same colors, produce an entirely different print (a much better one.) And that has always intrigued me; I would like to see the "same" print from a number of different hands. Perhaps this could be worked into the collaboration idea? - --Greg Valentine ------------------------------ From: April Vollmer & John Yamaguchi Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 00:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Baren 5427] Upload I just uploaded two images to Woodblock.com. I sent in a photo of Bea, Barbara and me (April) above an installation shot of our closing show and a separate closeup of our three prints from the Horizons Craft Program. This was the Elderhostel Japanese woodcut class that I taught last week. Each student made an 8 x 10" image. Bea and Barbara had done a lot of printmaking before, and came to learn hanga. It was pretty amazing to have the Baren friendships take flesh, Bea and Barbara are quite real, and quite nice people! Great to have a chance to work with them. Nice prints! April Vollmer ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V8 #677 ***************************