[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Tuesday, 24 August 1999 Volume 08 : Number 672 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: April Vollmer/John Yamaguchi Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:01:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Baren 5337] Re: Baren Digest V8 #670 Kim, I loved your 'simple' little print. One color, great design. That's when it makes sense for the artist to cut the block, it's part of creating the image. I can see from your print that it is not a reproduction of something else. Reduction cuts can only be done by the artist, but I know all my prints, reduction AND one block per color, are created in the cutting as much as in the initial drawing. And Photoshop has allowed me to make really complex initial sketches. I could never manipulate all the elements and make them the right size without bringing them into photoshop. Kim doesn't need it, but I find it very useful. And wood splintering: I think I mentioned I visited Takuji Hamanaka? He is available for editioning,by the way, anyone who wants to go Gary's route. (718-383-2911) He learned in a shop in Tokyo before he moved to NY seven years ago. He suggested painting the block with very thin gesso to keep it from splintering. Georgia: I included all the info I have on Akua-color, see McClain's catalogue, or e-mail Susan Rostow at wb-inks@worldnet.att.net April Vollmer ------------------------------ From: flint Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:23:37 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5338] Re: Silly Season Strikes Forum! The detailed pictures of the "prize" shows an image of a hand holding a fan. Are those embossed lines I see on the fan? If so, what a great enhancement! Flint Hahn ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:32:41 -0800 Subject: [Baren 5339] Pigments Georgia asked about Akua-color Check with the folks that were at my workshop. If you want trouble free and wonderful waterbase pigment go for: The Company name is: Mike Turner. Fine Line Painting and Decorating Company Victoria B.C. e-mail fineliners @msn.com As I mentioned before I have been using these pigments for 5 years and exposed them to sun tests. I had no fading. The easy of use is beyond expression compared to using ground pigments. I am still using the 2oz size that I purchased 5 years ago so the is plenty of material for the person doing my sizes of prints. If you have an interest in purchasing these you will deal direct with the company above. They will not ship during the Winter. All the price are Canadian and US in 60ml (2 oz.) (The value of the Canadian dollar varies so the US price may change. Ultramarine Blue* $6.25 4.05 US Thalo Blue* $7.25 4.70 US Magenta* $7.25 4.70 US Thalo Green $7.25 4.70 US Cadmium Red Light* $6.25 4.05 US Cadmium Yellow Deep* $6.25 4.05 US Titanium White* $4.25 2.75 US Hansa Yellow Light* $6.25 4.05 US Burnt Sienna* $4.25 2.75 US Yellow Oxide* $4.25 2.75 US Carbon Black $4.25 2.75 US Dinitro Orange $6.25 4.05 US Raw Umber $4.25 2.75 US Dioxidine Purple $7.25 4.70 US Double the price for 4 oz sizes. Also available 250 ml(8 oz.) 1 litre(32 oz.) * This is my palette. If you have a lot of experience and knowledge about colour, you will be able to mix any colour you would need. The purple, green. orange and black are convenience colours and can be closely mixed from my * palette. Graham PS The guys in the workshop get a small complimentary set of colours (with the *) so you ask them what their findings are. ------------------------------ From: Bea Gold Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:40:23 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5340] workshop A little late- but first installment on Elderhostel workshop report- more to come. Bea Monday August 16, 1999 Last night was the introduction to the workshops by the instructors at the Elderhostel workshop at Horizons at Williamsburg, Ma. This included Japanese woodblock, Black and White photography, Basket Making, Pastels, Welding Sculptures - April showed slides of her work and all were duly impressed as they were with the other instructors who showed slides of their work. Today the class started with a general introduction to print making, then tools and sharpening in the morning and a discussion of the design and planning of the print to keep it simple. There are eight people in the class including Barbara Hearn and myself who are members of the Baren and several who have never done wood cutting before. I have cut wood forever but incorrectly so I spent the day unlearning bad habits. I don't know how far IÕve gotten but it is hard work! April demonstrated the way to cut a kento using a Kentonomi, how to hold the To, how to finish the cut using a U-gouge and the bull nosed chisel. Today and tomorrow are cutting days with Wednesday, Thursday and Friday for printing. Since I don't have access to a telephone I will continue each day until I do and then send all at once Š Sorry Dave! ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:21:17 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5341] composition The question was asked "How much time do you spend designing Vs carving." I spend more time designing than carving and printing. The composition is the basis for the work, the design is what will make it a success or not. It is also the blueprint for the carving and printing and I for one spend a lot of time agonizing over it. I do the drawing, leave it on the draft table come back and look at it again. I flip it to see if I can spot problems in the reverse image And I plan how many blocks will it take, how many colors, what will print first, second. By the time I get to the carving I'm really looking forward to it. I know what Comes away and I can relax into the process. The carving is my favorite part and has become a relaxing, meditative time for me. The printing I find repetitive and tiring and I admit that if I could afford it I'd be happy to turn the work over to someone else. Andrea Rich ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:41:26 -0500 Subject: [Baren 5342] Re: Thanks..... Thanks to all of those that filled in the critique page for my exchange #2 print. After I get a chance to go over the last two weeks of mail and get a feel for the current happenings at Baren central I will try to reply personally to each of you. Florida was great ! Thanks again.......Julio Rodriguez ------------------------------ From: Ruth Leaf Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:51:57 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5343] Re: Baren Digest V8 #670 I have been using the computer to design my woodcuts because the freedom the tools allow for color and drawing In the past most of my prints were readable landscapes and people. The mouse and Photoshop allowed me to understand what the abstract expressionists were all about. The mouse becomes an extension of my hand I'm not saying this is the only way to go but as an extra tool it's great. I still draw with a pencil and brush. The color woodcuts on my website were all designed on the computer. I don't trace the computer prints I just use them as a reference. The coney Island series were drawn with a brush. There is a dichotomy between the prints. I'm interested in any comments...Ruth http://www.ecom.net/~leafr ------------------------------ From: "Philip Smith" Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:51:27 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5344] Re: Looking for inspiration Jeanne,......To finish your quote,."An artist without inspiration is like someone who rattles on with nothing to say",.....it's very possible some that some artists respect themselves enough to say something profound with their work! Philip ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:50:12 +0000 Subject: [Baren 5345] Re: Sharks and stuff ... David Bull wrote: > I'd change one word in this sentence - I can't believe that it is > possible to be all three and still be as _good_. Well, I guess I will grudgingly agree with you. Grudgingly because I would like to hope that it is still possible for some one to be able to do all three as well as had been done, but upon reflection, it occurs to me that it is unlikely that someone could even learn to carve or print as well as Yoshida's carvers and printers these days, even without considering the design side. Where could one go to apprentice for as many years as it would require? Are any of the really good printers young enough to be able to pass on all there knowledge? It seems to me that one of the most important skills that the carver brought to the process was the ability to take the artist's design, some times just a sketch or a watercolor, and interpret it into the final blocks, doing all of the line work, color separations, decisions on number of blocks, etc. Have I supposed that correctly, Dave? Do any of the really good printers that you know still work from artist's sketches, or are they pretty much printing reproductions now? Jack ------------------------------ From: Maria Arango Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:04:43 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5346] Re: images and more Pete wrote: >But for me, a lot of the fun of it is _not_ knowing >exactly what you're going to get. Very few printmakers I have known hold this attitude, at least in the past! I wholeheartedly agree. The attraction I feel towards printmaking is the way the process itself modifies the images. A drawing is a drawing and a painting is a painting and there are many other media where an artist can be precise and get "exactly" what they want. Printmaking, the process, has a voice, the wood has a voice, the paper and ink have voices, and they all speak in the final print. When artists try to obliterate the voice of the process...well, then we have reproductions! There recently was an insulting article in an art magazine about "prints" (really reproductions); the author stated that she would use the term prints to accommodate the popular definition(?). When I told someone at work that I did prints, they asked: "what photo shop do you take your art to?" In retaliation, my prints have become more primitive, for lack of a better word, more showing of the process, the wood, the knife wounds, the ink. I go as far as making every print different, trying different papers within an edition, varying the pressure of the baren, some are lighter than others... I want them to SCREAM: "I was made by hand and no reproduction can match this!" In designing, I like the process fresh. I might think about a design for a long time, working it out in my head on long walks or cross-town drives (thinking about art is definitely more dangerous than holding a cell phone to your ear!). Once the image satisfies me, I jot down some so-called sketches and put it somewhere; I remember only the good ones and I work on them on paper. Not to "dumb them down" but to accommodate the process, which I like bold and fresh, I usually draw right on the block with sharpies or sumi ink. Carving changes the image and that's just fine with me because I tend to be meticulous (read: anal) in my drawings and I wanted to get away from that in woodcuts. Carving give woodcuts their charming personality. Printmaking in general for me IS the process; I get bored doing just one thing, so the variety of all the tasks that are involved keeps me head over heels in love with the process. Computers? Hell, use them for all they've got! They can save a lot of sketching paper, manipulate, reverse, detail, enlarge, flip images, break down that pesky color separation that won't come to mind, try out color schemes, darken, lighten...don't know what-the-big-debate is! Health to all, Maria ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:59:43 +0900 Subject: [Baren 5347] Re: Collaboration ... Jack wrote: > I would > like to hope that it is still possible for some one to be able to do all > three as well as had been done, It's simply impossible. And in no other field do we expect someone to be a 'master' of _every_ aspect of the creative process! For example, do we expect the violin maker to be a concert performer too? Of course not; we expect him to be knowledgeable about violin playing, and understanding of the art, but we don't demand that he master both ends of the process - the 'performance' and the 'construction'. Then why do we expect the visual artist to be a master of both the creative muse, and the technical one? Isn't is _obvious_ that this should be a collaborative process? From each member of the team would come his best work - work that he had studied a lifetime to master! > Where could one go to apprentice for as many years as it would > require? Well on the web page of the Adachi Hanga Institute is a small notice saying 'Wanted: young people to apprentice as carvers/printers'. How's your Japanese? > It seems to me that one of the most important skills > that the carver brought to the process was the ability to take the artist's > design, some times just a sketch or a watercolor, and interpret it into the > final blocks, doing all of the line work, color separations, decisions on > number of blocks, etc. Gary and I have batted this back and forth for years now, and I see in my files about three hundred emails with him on just this topic! My take on this (in a nutshell), is that in the old days, there was such a large amount of work being done collaboratively, that the carvers (and printers of course) _knew_ already what was expected of them - the styles were so strongly established. So when a carver was given a design to carve, he knew exactly what to do, and the hanshita tracing would not have had to carry all the detail. Ditto for the printer; given the blocks for a Hiroshige landscape, he could turn out a perfect 'Hiroshige' with his eyes closed. So back in those days (I'm speaking of the Edo-era ukiyo-e here), the division of labour was absolute: - - The designer sketched. - - Workers in the publisher's place turned the sketch into a hanshita. - - The carver carved it. - - Sometimes the designer was then called back in to give 'advice' on colour separation (only sometimes). - - The carver carved colour blocks. - - The printer then created the print, sometimes (only sometimes), using the hints from the designer. These hints consisted of such words as 'red here', 'purple here', etc. What does 'red' mean? As you printmakers know, it means nothing - the astonishing ukiyo-e colour balances were created by the _printers_. When the Shin-Hanga movement rolled around, the same procedure was followed, but now the artists started to play a more involved part. In the book that Joe mentioned the other day, for example (The Complete Woodblock Prints of Kawase Hasui), there is a section in the back containing his schedule calendar for most of his life. Day and day we read things like "Over to the printer's house to work on the proofs for such-and-such". And this might go on for a week or so ... So obviously in these cases, there was a great deal of _active_ collaboration, unlike the 'sequential', assembly-line collaboration of the ukiyo-e days. > Do any of the > really good printers that you know still work from artist's sketches, or are > they pretty much printing reproductions now? They are doing mostly reproductions (when they are working at all). A few years back there was a lot of work doing printed reproductions of 'nihonga' (Japanese painting), but I don't see the ads anymore in the newspapers, so I guess that's faded out now too ... *** Flint wrote: > The detailed pictures of the "prize" shows an image of a hand > holding a fan. Are those embossed lines I see on the fan? If so, what > a great enhancement! Yes, there is embossing all over that thing. Just for fun, I took another half-dozen closeup shots of it. http://woodblock.com/forum/silly *** You probably won't believe this, but sign-ups for Exchange #4 (that's _four_) have been coming in regularly, and there are now only eleven spots left. If you're interested, you are advised not to delay too much longer ... http://woodblock.com/forum/exchange_sign-up.html Dave ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:47:19 -0400 Subject: [Baren 5348] Re: Silly Season Strikes Forum! Joe wrote, > One of the most striking things about Japanese prints >(Hokusai for example) is the flowing line! How can the energy of a hand be >scanned - digitized - re digitized when printed and still retain that same >energy. Absolutely, Joe. Nothing like the flowing line. Computer's weakness there. Can't get close. Gary ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:50:11 -0400 Subject: [Baren 5349] Re: Sharks and stuff ... Dave wrote, >Truly I believe that _collaborative work_ - from each his/her best skill - >is the path to the best prints. It's an absolute tragedy that it is pretty >much finished. Hopefully not quite yet, Dave. Hang in there. I'm behind you on this line of thinking. Gary ------------------------------ From: (Brad Schwartz) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:39:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Baren 5350] Re: Answers & more questions Hi gang... > Quite often there are prints on e-Bay that are/look like pretty good > prints. But how would one know if they are real prints or reproductions, > good or bad and how much they would be worth? Any guidelines? Usually they _will_ say whether or not they are a true print (as we printmakers think of them) or if they are a MPLE (mass produced limited edition) = poster. Check for a certificate of authenticity from a reputable gallery, make sure the print is truely signed (not a printed signature), numbered, etc. A friend of mine at work has purchased a few prints and has found them to be everything the seller said they were.... probably lucky, but ya never know. Good luck, Brad ------------------------------ From: Sherpsm@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 00:12:32 EDT Subject: [Baren 5351] Re: Silly Season Strikes Forum! Dave - I agree with your concept of art being a cooperative effort. The old Western masters - did they all mix and boil their ox glues or grind there gypsum and chalk grounds? And who broke down the mineral stone to provide color for others to use? Art is always in the eye of the beholder - It is everywhere! Joe ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 00:16:40 -0400 Subject: [Baren 5352] Re: Silly Season Strikes Forum! Dave, and others, I was looking at the "prize" a little tonight, and was wondering if: a) my eyesight is going bad b) the image resolution was degraded somehow, consequently distorted c) the ladies feet are in fact a little strange d) I have a perception disorder So, take a look yourselves and see if you notice anything strange, would you? Dave, what's going on here? The kneeling lady appears to have a second sole on her barefoot, the right, I think, and the standing lady's right foot appears more like a hand with its knuckles on the floor and it's thumb pressing the mat. Were these guys having fun? carving while heavily intoxicated? carving the image while standing on their heads practicing yoga? or am I losing it? Please comment only in the positive. If I'm losing it, be kind. Gary ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V8 #672 ***************************