[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest               Sunday, 22 August 1999       Volume 08 : Number 669

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 22:57:10 +0900
Subject: [Baren 5309] Silly Season Strikes Forum! 

Quiet on the forum these hot days ... some of you working hard,
some of you playing hard no doubt ...

http://woodblock.com/forum/silly

Dave

------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 07:39:04 -0800
Subject: [Baren 5310] Re: Silly Season Strikes Forum! 

>http://woodblock.com/forum/silly

Well damn..... I am away for 7 of these days attending the Life Drawing
exhibition at Dawson Creek Gallery.

Oh well, back to framing.....30 down and only 30 more to do.

Graham

------------------------------

From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:44:31 -0400
Subject: [Baren 5311] Re: Silly Season Strikes Forum! 

Graham wrote:
> Well damn..... I am away for 7 of these days attending the Life Drawing
> exhibition at Dawson Creek Gallery.

Nice try Graham, but I don't think this qualifies for an entry, by the
rules.  :):):)  By the way, are the going to model in your cellophane
raincoat at this life drawing "exhibition"???

Well, I have to go and think of some relevant topic for my entry.   If
you're going to be out for 7 days, maybe this is a good time to resurrect
the old computer debate, huh?

Interesting prints Dave,  you find a lot more in _your_ old book stores
than I ever see here.    How about putting some of the others up on-line if
you get a chance, just for out viewing pleasure, even if they are not going
to be "prizes", as they may well spark some comment and questions during
this summer lull.

O.k., here's my hot potato for discussion (and entry #1).   My impression
is that most of you folks spend more time on the carving and printing
process than you do on design.   Right or wrong?  

Here's another one.   How does the difficulty of carving and printing, as
you foresee this in your mind, influence the design of your work?   If you
know it's going to be a lot of work carving different blocks and printing,
does this cause you to simplify your designs to the very basic elements?
Is this why self-carved/printed works are often simpler in design than
those someone else might carve/print?

I look at the history of 20th century Japanese woodblock prints and tend to
notice this fork in the road.  At the point Sosaku Hanga and Shin Hanga
diverged, the Sosaku Hanga produced much simpler designs, while Shin Hanga
kept going full steam ahead with greater technical challenges, and more
intricate carving and printing, it seems to me, than Sosaku Hanga, or self
carved/printed works.   While it is decidedly more "modern" in design, is
this because of the difficulties the _designers_ now had to face if they
were to carve and print their own work? 

A few exceptions to this in both Hiroshi Yoshida's self printed works,  and
of course Grahams'.

I ask these questions from the designer's viewpoint, because I haven't
carved or printed any of my own designs, but these are things I notice and
wonder about.   If I were to carve and print my own work, they may well be
strong considerations to make as now I have to take responsibility for the
entire process rather than doing only a design and handing it off to others
who are experts in carving and printing.  What are your feelings on this?=

Gary 

------------------------------

From: Sherpsm@aol.com
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:40:04 EDT
Subject: [Baren 5312] Re: Silly Season Strikes Forum! 

Gary
You are Gary of the Hawaiian print series?  Who did carve and print your 
series? 

Dave - Thanks for the "silly" season suggestions. 
I do have a question for you, not that you do have the spare time to deal 
with this but - when you mentioned that you were in the hon-ya section of 
Tokyo I wondered if you see all the reference catalogues on woodblock 
artists. Often there are reference books that appear in Japan that do not 
make it here. I noticed on an auction site (Ebay) there were books referring 
to Kotondo and Azechi. Are these book available in Tokyo bookstores? I 
suppose I could try to order them at the Kunikuniya store here in NY but I do 
not know the titles or publishers. Perhaps a list of new books on the hanga 
artists might be added to the reference pages. Anyone in Tokyo have that kind 
of time?   
Joe

------------------------------

From:<DARICH@prodigy.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 10:18:48 -0700
Subject: [Baren 5313] Re: Baren Digest V8 #668 

Dear Graham,
It sound like you got a great deal on kozo.  It is my favorite paper to
print on.  How much are you charging? I trust your expertise in judging
quality and won't as you for a sample.

Andrea Rich

------------------------------

From: Wanda Robertson <robertson@canby.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 10:53:27 -0700
Subject: [Baren 5314] Answers & more questions 

Dave,
"Silly Season"? This is right up my alley. Oh, yes, calm down Wanda,
Dave didn't mean *act* silly! 

Graham, 
Just borrow one of your fellow Mac User Group' laptops & write in about
your show every evening when you are through partying! Easy! Good luck,
I'm sure it will be a huge success. All that framing, though. Wears me
out just to think about it.

Gary,
Yes, by all means, resurrect the computer argument! In my very limited
(but rabid) experience with block printing, I find the computer a
valuable and very biddable tool. I use it for expanding sketches,
reversing images, all kinds of things. 

The question as to whether one designs for ease of carving - hmmm. I'll
have to think about that one, but I doubt if anyone "dumbs" down their
image to make it easier to carve. Some people just prefer simpler
images, while others may be undaunted by difficult cuts & layers &
layers of colors. I, personally, never think about how difficult the
cuts will be - but that may come about with more experience in
woodblock.

May I ask why you don't do your own cutting, Gary? 

To ALL still here,
Quite often there are prints on e-Bay that are/look like pretty good
prints. But how would one know if they are real prints or reproductions,
good or bad and how much they would be worth? Any guidelines? 

Sorry to turn this into a book,
Wanda

------------------------------

From: agatha <agatha@uswest.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 10:52:50 -0700
Subject: [Baren 5315] Re: Baren Digest V8 #668 

i would love to buy the highest quality paper, but i simply cannot afford it at
this time in my life.  just wanted to offer you a perspective as to why people
would pass over your incredible offer.  i'm sure more people than just i are in
this same financial boat on this forum.  maybe someday i can afford to buy
beautiful handcrafted paper, but for now this paper would be construed as a luxury.

------------------------------

From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 14:57:37 -0400
Subject: [Baren 5317] Re: Silly Season Strikes Forum! 

Joe wrote,
> Gary
> You are Gary of the Hawaiian print series?  Who did carve and print your
> series? 

Keiji Shinohara did, Joe.   

Wanda wrote,
> Gary, Yes, by all means, resurrect the computer argument! In my very
> limited (but rabid) experience with block printing, I find the computer a
> valuable and very biddable tool. 

How about this, John, we have a third Musketeer!   Good for you Wanda.  
I'd like to hear more about your uses of the computer for your print work. 
 I am not recollectful enough to know whether you were in Baren at the time
of the earlier "discussions" so I hate to re-iterate that argument more
than in very broad terms.   If Graham is still with us he may be willing to
give us his side in more fluent terms that I can recall,  but I think it
went something like this:  

Graham:   "There is NO substitute for learning how to draw and mastering
the physical aspects of your art by hand.  NO substitute."

Gary:  " A computer is a useful tool to help work out designs, experiment
with color, and to help 'see' what the print will look like."

Somehow this generated a warm debate.    

An interesting side issue which seemed to surface was Dave's supposition
that an artist mastered his materials and techniques to the point where a
concept, once in mind, was simply stroked onto the paper, or canvas, by the
artist and it was done.    Much as a calligraphy master poised himself,
brush in hand,  dipped into the ink dish, and then masterfully wrote a
poem.

Since we have acquired a considerable membership since that time, it might
be interesting to take another poll on these subjects, as we may now have
additional perspectives and insights we lacked before.   

To get things rolling, I will state my way of doing things, as right or
wrong as you may think.   I disagreed with Dave's and perhaps other's
concept of art as something done in the mind, then executed, much as the
calligraphy master writing his poem.   Let me re-phrase that, as I don't
want to appear to be arguing with Dave.   Some artists may well do that,
and my hat is off to them.   I have never been fortunate enough to be able
to work that way.

I start with an idea which I sketch out.   I try then to identify it's
weaknesses and to improve on them.  My development process is little more
than a continuous effort to improve the composition.  I set it aside, turn
it upside down, look at it from a distance, trying to see if from as many
angles as may give me a valuable idea.   I put it away and come back weeks
later, hoping a fresh look at it will give me an idea I didn't have before.
  When an image pleases me consistently for a period of time, I think it
may be ready to go.   At some point you just quote Dave and say,  "Cut! 
Print!"

I find a computer an invaluable tool in this process of experimentation
because it allows you to try so many options visually, your learning
experiments are limited only by your imagination and facility with the
program.  

So, what's everyone else's slant on these things?

Gary

------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:58:53 -0800
Subject: [Baren 5319] Re: Baren Digest V8 #668 

Andrea Rich wrote....
>It sound like you got a great deal on kozo.  It is my favorite paper to
>print on.  How much are you charging? I trust your expertise in judging
>quality and won't as you for a sample.

Andrea if you check the little "Fisher" print on exhange #1 you will see
the paper.

------------------------------

From: "Andy English" <a.english@virgin.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:24:56 +0100
Subject: [Baren 5320] Looking for inspiration 

I just returned from a trip across mainland Europe to view a total eclipse
of the sun. I finally decided to drive from Luxembourg into Northern
France. It was an incredible experience for me and my family and this
combination of a memorable/moving natural phenomonen and significant family
occasion is just the sort of thing that inspires an image for a print.
Having said that, it has taken up to four years for me to reach the image
that really sums up the moment for me. Having written that, I would like to
produce my "eclipse" print by the end of the year. At the moment, I'm
trying to capture the sense of "community" that existed between my family
and about a dozen other observers that watchedwith us on that lonely
roadside.

Well that is the sort of thing that inspires me. I wondered what gets other
Baren members reaching for the block and tools?

Andy

http://freespace.virgin.net/a.english/print.htm

------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V8 #669
***************************