[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Friday, 6 August 1999 Volume 08 : Number 651 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cucamongie@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:38:07 EDT Subject: [Baren 5169] paper Jean, I do papermaking stuff with kids from time to time also - it's great fun and the kids love it!! Last week I helped out in a workshop where for a bunch of tiny pre-schoolers - we pulled sheets & did pulp painting, and you should have seen some of the gorgeous things these little tykes came up with! Sarah ------------------------------ From: Gayle Wohlken Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:53:51 -0400 Subject: [Baren 5170] Re: Baren Digest V8 #650 Gabrielle, you are achieving those gradated skied with oil based ink? I'm curious how you go about it. I read your page on technique, and realize you do reduction printing, which I haven't tried. But could you explain the way you do the skies. I would like to try a sky like that in a print I am currently working on, but I don't know how to go about it. Thanks. By the way, I like your prints very much. * * * Thanks, Graham, for your explanation of the use of the v-cutter. I can see how it would work for tree branches. Graham, do you always use water based inks and do hanga style. Do you ever use oil based? * * * Horacio, your talk of masters and their tools was interesting to me. I'm struggling with "should I buy better tools?" right now and I think you said something important. I probably will buy, as I can afford them, better tools because it is a challenge sometimes, but I like what you had to say. Gayle ------------------------------ From: "Lezle Williams" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:31:02 -0500 Subject: [Baren 5171] Re: Baren Digest V8 #650 Dear Gabrielle, Nice work! Some of the landscapes look like my area in western South Dakota. Do you work with the hanga or western techniques? Dear Sarah, Here is the web address: http://www.thewildones.org/Gifs/Lezle/lezle.html Keep in mind that this is one that the environmental group "The Wild Ones" set up, so it is the imagery of their choosing. I haven't really done any more illustrational work since I got back into printmaking about a year ago. A few of my woodengravings are here: http://www.arthire.com/cgi-bin/ArtHire$AH (first 4 posted) but, I hope eventually to post a web site of my own.... Lezle Williams ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:10:16 -0800 Subject: [Baren 5172] Re: Baren Digest V8 #650 >Graham, do you always use water based inks and do hanga >style. Do you ever use oil based? I am truly Hooked on Hanga.....as I was with Transparent watercolours for 40 years Oil base offers nothing for me. Oil anything has never been much interest in my Art world. I recall doing oil paintings in art school, that was just about the last time I used them, that did nothing for me. Messy Smelly and bloody hard to clean up. Oh and one more thing, I spent more money on oil brushes in those 4 years than I have the rest of my career....Oh I know your suppose to clean them... Graham ps. Bonjour Gabrielle, Hope your English is sufficient to get all there is to get from this form..... It is priceless collection of bits and piece as well as indepth stuff. ------------------------------ From: Ruth Leaf Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:23:51 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5173] Re: Baren Digest V8 #650 Horacio You're work is certainly exciting very reminiscent of the political work of the mexican artists that I'm familiar with. What kind of wood do you use? Are your tools that are not expensive kept very sharp and how long do they keep their cutting edge? Ruth Leaf http://www.ecom.net/~leafr ------------------------------ From: Ruth Leaf Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:41:20 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5174] Re: Baren Digest V8 #650 For repairing overcut lines I've been using carpenters wood filler. If you put thin amounts of it and let it dry between layers and then sand it works very well. It's a product put out by elmers glue. Ruth Leaf ------------------------------ From: Elizabeth Atwood Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:07:18 -0400 Subject: [Baren 5175] Tools, etc. Interesting discussion on tools. Thanks for another viewpoint, Horacio! I'm sure there is nothing better than working with fine tools......but I will have to confess to belonging to the school of "whatever works!" I have been making woodblocks prints for over thirty years....starting out with a nice little pen knife which fit my hand comfortably......and inexpensive gouges (which I still use.) I have graduated to an "exacto" blade and razor blades and large chisel from my wood carving set. It is, of course, vital that the tools be very sharp at all times. For "whatever works", I once used a pizza cutter to texture a farm field in a large woodcut. And J.Mundie uses sewing needles. Welcome to new members! I hope Gabrielle will answer Gayle's question about gradations in her skies. I left the same question on her very interesting web site...... ElizA ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:06:28 -0500 Subject: [Baren 5176] Re: Exchange #2; got it! Just got my first look at the second Baren exchange. Wonderful work, such variety, many "animal" subjects. Looking forward to exchange #3. Won't spoil the surprise for others in wait. Thanks to all the exchange participants.......nice going John Amoss, thanks for all your work! Julio ------------------------------ From: James G Mundie Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:22:41 -0400 Subject: [Baren 5177] etching with electricity Jean wrote: >Right now I wish I could find someone who would help me set up an >electro-etch setup. Jean and whoever else might be interested, Go and take a peek at http://www.hijau.demon.co.uk/galvetch/greenpnt.htm I wrote to Cedric Green -- a rather nice and helpful fellow -- who set up the above website, and purchased his pamphlet which describes how to set up all you need to etch plates with electricity safely and cleanly. I have misplaced the pamphlet and haven't yet gotten around to buying all the little odds and ends, but it is a fairly simple process. The booklet went into quite a bit of technical jargon about amps and volts and such (enough to send Dave into the sort of mania he experienced over harpsichords :-D), but it is a fairly simple process of directing a very tiny amount of electricity from a car battery or battery charger through a metal plate suspended in a non-corrosive salt solution. The current is so weak that one could easily stick their hand in the solution while etching without experiencing any effect at all. One coats the plates simply by rolling them up with woodblock ink and allowing to dry (for hardground) or working while still wet (for softground). The neat-o thing about the process is that you can actually put metal back on the plate simply by reversing the polarity. One could even glue doilies and other assorted stuff onto a plate, flip on the current and have those objects electroplated in metal -- making the sturdiest of all collograph plates. There is another outfit called "Electroetch" who have been attempting to discredit Cedric's technique. The Electroetch people claim they "own" the process (which is rather curious considering the process has been known to science for centuries) and so have been trying to claim copyright infringement. Electroetch also will try and convince the customer that they need to buy a lot of expensive equipment from the company, rather than heading down to the hardware store like Mr. Green suggests. James Mundie ------------------------------ From: Cucamongie@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:38:56 EDT Subject: [Baren 5178] Portfolio Exchange 2 WOW ! I received my exchange portfolio (#2) today in the mail, and it was full of such lovely work!! there almost seemed to be a few unifying themes - a menagerie of animals, women with hats, natural (and supernatural) landscapes... what a wonderful variety of styles, sensibilities, etc etc.... I once again feel incredibly honored and humbled to have my print in the midst of this wonderful collection! Thank you all, and special thanks to (St.) John and Dave, of course - this really made my day (and the prints will be paying rotating visits to my wall to enjoy) - Best to all, Sarah ------------------------------ From: Wanda Robertson Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 10:55:47 -0700 Subject: [Baren 5179] Re: Exchange #2; got it! Oh wonderful! Julio you must have had yours sent by express mail! I am *so* looking forward to getting the exchange prints. I had joined Baren right after the first exchange closed - and the excitement over that exchange really got me into woodblock printing. From linocut to woodblock (both with oil inks) to Hanga (in 3 not-so-easy steps!) In looking at the sign-up page for exchange #3, I see that we only need 3 more people! And is it finalized that exchange #4 is going to be self-portraits? And yes, John, thank you so much for doing the receiving, collating & mailing for this exchange. Right in the middle of moving, too! And Dave, I really don't think you realize what a revolution you've started here. You are not seeing the prints yet, because some of us are still lagging behind in the learning curve - but they *are* being made. We want them to look _good_! Wanda ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:02:52 -0500 Subject: [Baren 5182] re: tone overlays Looking for some help here. This technique of cutting two blocks and overlaying so that we endup with three tones (or three colors) (light + medium = dark or three colors.....blue + yellow = green) on the print......can someone explain how they go about planning and carrying it out such idea........I think this technique only applies to the water people.....sounds a lot like basic watercolor 101..... Graham ? Dave ? Thanks...... JULIO http://www.skokienet.org/skyouth/syjcrp1.html ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 10:32:16 +0900 Subject: [Baren 5183] Re: tone overlays Julio wrote: > This technique of cutting two blocks and overlaying so that we endup with three > tones (or three colors) on the print......can someone explain how they go about > planning and carrying out such idea........ How to explain this in words? When I was in the early stages of work on my poets' series, I wanted to find a way to avoid guesswork on colour overlays, so made up a little 'test kit' to try out combinations. This consisted of a base unit, and a pile of small slips of wood that slotted into it at different overlapping angles. When I brushed different pigments over the bits of wood, and then overprinted them at angles, I ended up with a pile of samples that showed one, two, three and four colours overlaid on each other. That's the easy part, getting a feeling for what tones will result. The other step, how to do the colour separation in your head when preparing the blocks ... I don't have an easy answer (and in fact, in the kind of prints that I make - traditional outline work - this is not so difficult). It'll be interesting to see what Graham or Gary have to add on this. >I think this technique only applies to the water people..... Not at all .. Here is a quote from one of the articles in the Encyclopedia (the book 'Relief Printing' - by Ernest W. Watson, the chapter 'Color Printing from Relief Blocks'). Watson is speaking here of his work with oil-based pigments. > Receptivity of the paper is indeed one of the essential > conditions for fine color printing. This quality accounts > for sympathetic edges and the "blending" of the various > colors, which really amounts to their mixing after being > applied to the paper. The method of printing successive > colors while the undercolors are still wet is contrary to > the practice of the commercial print shop where the first > color is permitted to dry before another is added, and the > results are as unlike as the methods employed. Print red > over yellow after the yellow has dried, the yellow > modifies the red merely because the red is not quite > opaque and the yellow is seen through it. Print the red > over the yellow while still wet, and the red is more > strongly influenced by the undercolor, and in a different > way: the two colors actually combine and produce a third > color. The importance of this distinction is not apparent > until experiments are made and the infinite possibilities > inherent in wet overlays are thus convincingly demonstrated. And in fact, the illustrations of his prints in that Encyclopedia extract, show exactly the kind of colour overlays that you're after, I think. *** Wanda wrote: > In looking at the sign-up page for exchange #3, I see that we only need > 3 more people! Yes, only three ... or perhaps four (as one of the signers has said he might not be able to participate). Now that #2 is done, lets get going on #3! > And is it finalized that exchange #4 is going to be > self-portraits? There was a very strong consensus indeed on having self-portraits as the theme, so when I put up the announcement page for #4 (the day that #3 becomes fully subscribed), I will mark it as such. > Dave, I really don't think you realize what a revolution you've > started here ... Started? I don't think that's quite the case! But yes, it is gratifying to see how much interest seems to be 'pent up' ... Dave ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:43:22 -0800 Subject: [Baren 5184] Re: tone overlays Julio wrote: >This technique of cutting two blocks and overlaying so that we endup with >three tones (or three colors) Well I think you are into advanced watercolours 210.... First let me direct you to: http://www.members.home.net/gscholes/carmanah.html this I believe is a good example of the overlay of colours to achieve a third and in this case three colours to get a fourth. I believe the best method is to develop your design in watercolours and take it from there. You will have to paint one shape and then glaze the next colour on to determine the results. You then have the shapes needed to create the form to be carved and eventually the image. This all hinges on the pigments you are using for your print. My pigments are very similar to Winsor Newton watercolours when used as glazes so the process is achievable. Have said all this I must explain that the 30 years I spend painting in watercolours make the process kind of second nature for me. I don't know if this is any help......it really is a sit beside me thingy and watch as I demonstrate. Graham ------------------------------ From: barnaby.smith@immi.gov.au Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 15:34:43 +1000 Subject: [Baren 5185] Re: tone overlays Hello David Bull (and other baren members?) I have recently checked into the baren site and put myself down as a subscriber to the baren infonet. Much very useful and interesting information and news from the world of woodblock printers out there. I am an Australian (living in Canberra) who works with the Japanese technique (ie. watercolours, pigments, goauche, etc.). I learned this technique initially while on an academic exchange at Kyoto Seika University, was taught there by Akira Kurosaki Sensei, and have continued working with this method in the years since. I work on a fairly large scale with abstract/landscape overtones. I will try to give a proper intro to myself at a later stage. I notice there has been much on the subject of cutting tools, however, I was wondering if anyone out there knows where to get hold of those beautiful, densely bristled traditional Japanese brushes (made of horse or bear hair, I understand) which are used for spreading the colour on the block, and achieving those wonderful gradation techniques. The Japanese name for these brushes escapes me at the moment. I'm afraid that shoe brushes just don't cut it when it comes to Japanese woodblock printing. I need large brushes, and can't find such brushes anywhere in Australia. They could be bought at the Art Supplies shop at the Kyoto Seika University, but I don't have the Japanese language skills to initiate an inquiry or order. My "kingdom" for a supplier of such brushes! Second inquiry is: at the Kyoto Seika supply shop, I bought these large tubes of the most wonderful block printing colour, used alot by Kurosaki Sensei. Does anyone know of a supplier of these Japanese block printing colours? Unfortunately, the product names are in Japanese script, although I will check again when I go back to my studio. Many thanks and keep up the good work! Barnaby Smith. ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V8 #651 ***************************