[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Tuesday, 27 April 1999 Volume 07 : Number 545 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jean Eger Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 06:53:27 -0700 Subject: [Baren 4216] Re: Baren Digest V7 #544 Dave, The Emerson quote is from the ESSAYS OF RALPH WALDO EMERSON, Halcyon House, Garden City, New York, 1941, Garden City Publishing. It was "Nature" in the series called "English Traits." Jean Eger ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:00:34 -0700 Subject: [Baren 4217] gorilla painting!!!!!! Sarah wrote.... >I have a fun website for anyone that would be interested in seeing some >paintings done by gorillas. Gees are they ever neat. (tongue in cheek) This is certainly a case of needing two bods to do a painting. One to toss the colour and a second person to say stop,( take the canvas away and name it under the guise of abstract). It is interesting to note that with out the dialogue (explanation with each canvas) that you would not have any idea what the heck they represent. This takes me back to the expression. "If you need words to explain the painting then you should be a writer not an artist". (I wish I knew who said that) The web site is delightful I enjoyed it. http://www.gorilla.org/gorilla/gorilla_art/index.html Graham ------------------------------ From: Don Furst Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:41:57 -0400 Subject: [Baren 4218] Re: Plates and end use? Graham wrote: >........Actually I have often wondered what will become of .... my blocks. >I was wondering what some of you have in mind for the plates you carve. In some cases, the block or plate is more beautiful itself than any print pulled from it. Sometimes I will take my finished copper plates, ink them and wipe them to a high polish, let the ink dry in a dust-free space, then coat with 10 layers of fixative. The image glows beautifully on the copper surface. I am giving my 9-year-old daughter the carved wooden blocks from the Baren exchange print. The blocks are now low-relief sculptures. There is nothing more beautiful in lithography than the drawn image under gum, but stones are too costly to keep for display (rather than grain down and re-use). --Don ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne N. Chase" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:44:54 -0400 Subject: [Baren 4219] Re: gorilla painting!!!!!! Dear Graham Your post reminds me of an "artist", I know. She paints non objective art. When it is finished she stands back, studies the "art", tries to see something in the forms, then gives it a title so the viewer will have a clue. This, as Jack has mentioned is "meaningless". Which reminds me. Has anyone ever read "The Courage To Create" by Rollo May? It was written , I believe in 1973. I have read it until it is dog eared. it is worth having in your collection if you like a little philosophy with your art. In his book he quotes; "Creative people , as I see them, are distinguished by the fact that they can live with anxiety, even though a high price may be paid in terms of insecurity, sensitivity, and defenselessness for the gift of the "divine Madness," to borrow the term used by the classical Greeks. They do not run away from non-being, but by encountering and wrestling with it, force it to produce being. They knock on silence for an answering music, they pursue MEANINGLESS until thy can force ti to mean." Which is as good an answer to your phrase (which I agree) to meaningless art. The sofa, monkey, worms, whatever. I am a realist and so have a tendency to go toward that force, if you will. But I can sit in front of a Mark Rothko and meditate. His work captures my soul. He has taken his art out of meaningless into a definite Meaning. Jack Also want to thank you for all the work in taking care of the marvelous tape made by David. For those of you who did not have the opportunity in viewing it, you have missed getting to know him. It is a portrait of dedication. I feel that I know him so well and that I would love to know him even more. It is full of love and learning. I am ever grateful that he make this possible for us to view. I will get this missive all in one post. My blocks sometimes look better as blocks than prints. I am going to start putting them up as wall paper in the den. They look great, will not be destroyed and I can see them as they progress. A nail in four corners is all that will mar them. Some have a thin coating of paint and some look better just plain. Of course the failures are planed down. Jeanne ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 07:27:00 -0700 Subject: [Baren 4220] Used blocks Ray wrote.... >Regarding used woodblocks. I've made three wood collages with old blocks >carved from various woods, not plywood. I saw and peg them them together >then sand them, add some highlighted colors, sand again, rub with oil, and >build a frame. They would be abstract in a real sense. Sound delightful. > It's the one regret I have about using shina plywood! Yes I agree.....I use it now only to accommodate a size requirement of a print. Dave wrote.... > The hard cherry wood, if treated with common sense, will allow > many hundreds of prints to be pulled ... That makes the decision of what to do easy. I am surprised at the offer of only .....400,000 yen (somewhere just over three grand US)...... If you can run many hundreds (1000's?) then I should think that the offer was punny.... Let me add another equation..... So after producing hundreds and even upward and maybe one or two thousand and the plates become worn.....what then. Plane, donate or sell. How many do you think you can get off a set of plates Dave? I am going to put a few up for sale at my exhibition. How much????? Hmmmmmm....... Do I hear $1000.00 for one plate.... I will keep you posted. Cheers Graham ------------------------------ From: agatha Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 09:26:49 -0700 Subject: [Baren 4221] Re: Baren Digest V7 #543 i know this is going to tick graham and gary off, or at the very least cause them to shake their heads in a resigned fashion, but i really like most of those paintings! they have the freedom and natural composition of the prints that my daughter does. whenever she comes to the studio with me, the next day her prints on the drying rack invariably get compliments. it's refreshing sometimes to see what people (or gorillas) who don't think about art too much can accomplish. i'm getting myself into trouble here... ------------------------------ From: "Bea Gold" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 10:01:25 -0700 Subject: [Baren 4222] saved Blocks First I want to add my thanks to Jack for putting together the mailing of Daves' wonderful tape. It was so beautifully wrapped I hated to open it and let it sit a few days - but watched it yesterday and will watch today and maybe tomorrow! It teaches much and involves you in Daves' life in a moving way. Thank you Dave for sharing it with us. On cut blocks - I used to use oil ink and my cuts then became black all over - one of my grandsons complained that I ruined the cuts, so for a long time I just cut and kept the blocks displayed as a work of art without printing. Now, I am using water based inks which leaves the block pretty much intact for saving for decorative purposes - so hanga is next for me - (if I can master the craft) and I can leave used blocks to the kids. Meanwhile all my old blocks are saved for possible future printing. Bea ------------------------------ From: amoss@mindspring.com (John Amoss) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:21:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Baren 4223] yet another opinion In response to Graham's comment that went something like: "If I had to explain my work I should have then become a writer": Has anyone read Tom Wolfe's "The Painted Word"? I must admit that the book is a "cynic-fest", but I think the artist/critic symbiosis really was in high-gear during Jack Pollock's day. * I personally love when the artist thinks about not only WHAT to show, but what NOT to show. Felix Vallotton's woodblocks come to mind here. It's natural for the artist to think in light and dark- too much of either is boring to me. The same applies for reality and abstraction in a painting- too much non-information (or information) just doesn't provide enough interaction to keep me interested. Said another way: A room without a window is less "holy" (sorry about the pun). - -John ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:33:52 -0700 Subject: [Baren 4224] Re: gorilla painting!!!!!! Jeanne wrote.... > Has anyone ever read "The Courage To Create" by Rollo May? It sound like something I would enjoy and benefit from... Thanks. >Of course the failures are planed down. You could always make them abstract.....(<: (:< Graham ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:42:59 -0700 Subject: [Baren 4225] Re: Baren Digest V7 #543 >i know this is going to tick graham and gary off, or at the very least cause >them to shake their heads in a resigned fashion, but i really like most of >those paintings! You know what Sarah.....So do I. I'm just grumbling because the damn gorilla can do better abstract than I can..... Graham PS I am serious about how good they are.....It just ain't fair..... I sure would hang it on my walls but mums the word about who painted. ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne N. Chase" Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 14:49:21 -0400 Subject: [Baren 4226] Re: gorilla painting!!!!!! Graham I guess I could make them abstract after I plane them down. After all there is nothing on them, something like famous paintings like "White on White" etc; Do you think I have a market then? Jeanne ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:46:15 -0700 Subject: [Baren 4227] your white on whites. >Do you think I have a market for then? If this were the 70's I could say most definitly....YES.....Today.....I don't think so. Graham ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 11:27:41 +0000 Subject: [Baren 4228] Re: Baren Digest V7 #543 Graham wrote: > I'm just grumbling because the damn gorilla can do better abstract than I can..... ...just think what they could do with formal training from a major art academy. Jack ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 17:50:34 -0400 Subject: [Baren 4229] Re: Baren Digest V7 #543 Graham, You better stop monkeying around or those gorillas will be showing at the Victoria Museum ahead of you! Gary ------------------------------ From: Sunnffunn@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:16:18 EDT Subject: [Baren 4230] Re: Baren Digest V7 #536 when i did do abstract art it was with a subject in mind but not one like a tree it was a subject that has no concrete image so it was best represented by abstract art such as how it feels to be a certain place or have a certain experience it flows from the inner self from personal experiences from an abstract self not from the world as we think we see it ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:07:39 +0900 Subject: [Baren 4231] Re: Used blocks Graham wrote: > I am surprised at the offer of only ..400,000 yen (somewhere just over > three grand US)...... > If you can run many hundreds (1000's?) then I should think that the offer > was puny.... Well of course, that's why he was interested in buying them. But he wasn't trying to get something for nothing - he just thought that I may not want to be involved in making more editions ... that's _his_ job as a publisher. > How many do you think you can get off a set of plates Dave? This is a very interesting question, and doesn't have one simple answer. Of course for a start, each piece of wood is quite different and will wear down in a different fashion, but over and above that is how they are treated. 1) It seems to be extremely important how many prints are pulled at any one time. I've got a set of blocks here given to me by the artist Yoshio Okada: http://woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/017_04/okada.html He tells me that they were printed in an edition of 300. The blocks are quite heavily worn, way way more than some of my own blocks that have printed _more_ than 300 impressions. Why? It's because the 300 were taken all at once; the printer brushed/rubbed brushed/rubbed brushed/rubbed 300+ times in _immediate_ succession. The wood was wet for many hours and became softer and softer as the printing went on, becoming quite worn. If however one prints like this: 100 copies - wait a few weeks for the block to dry - do another 100 copies - wait a few weeks for the block to dry ...etc etc. then wear on the lines is greatly reduced. Most publishers simply don't have the time to do this (or in the case of Okada san's print, never intended to take more than 300 copies anyway, so they didn't care). The results are very apparent when looking at old Hiroshige prints. These were very popular in their day, and one can easily imagine the publisher yelling at his printers "Another 200, and have them ready by tomorrow! We're almost out of stock of that one!" When prints were selling well, he simply couldn't afford to 'wait' for the blocks to settle down. The end result of this is the inevitable fact that the ukiyo-e prints most often left to us today were the ones that (of course) were the most frequently printed, and which are thus generally awful copies ... Stuff that didn't sell well is usually found (rarely, of course) in better condition. 2) Different pigments wear the wood in different ways. Some pigments seem to be more 'gritty', and thus their physical grinding action under the brush is increased. Sumi is one of these (unfortunately) and key blocks thus come under heavy attack. Having the pigment ground as finely as possible seems to help somewhat, as does using it in quite a diluted form. 3) Which does the damage - brush or baren? Again, as they are both so variable it's difficult to state categorically, but I think that the brush is mostly to blame. The baren does definitely cause wear though, and this is most easily seen on 'karazuri' blocks - printed with no pigment, and thus never touched by the brush ... So, how many copies? From high-quality, well-seasoned, well cared-for cherry blocks - certainly into four figures. And I'm being quite strict here; when the fair hair lines start to go, that would be the end of it. Yes, thousands. Sorry Graham, a long answer to a simple question ... > I am going to put a few up for sale at my exhibition. I've seen this done here; at a Joshua Rome exhibition a while ago, he had a bunch of the plates up on the wall for sale. Sorry, I don't remember the prices ... *** Jeanne wrote, re the documentary program: > For those of you who did not have the opportunity in viewing > it, you have missed getting to know him. Jeanne what do you think, should I give up and watch it? Maybe I'll 'get to know him'? It's interesting how my work on that series is already fading quickly into the past. Did I _really_ do that? It's starting to seem a bit unreal, like something that I read about somebody _else_ doing ... Thanks for the nice comments, everybody ... Dave ------------------------------ From: Sunnffunn@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:39:08 EDT Subject: [Baren 4232] Re: Plates and end use? question if you reprint on an old block is it then a new series?? and if it is a new series should it not be then a different color or a changed image? ------------------------------ From: agatha Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 22:14:04 -0700 Subject: [Baren 4233] Re: yet another opinion i just reread " the painted word" recently, when i first read it about ten years ago, it rocked my world. totally changed the way i looked at art for myself. i think the book is cynical, but certainly realistic. ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:42:12 +0000 Subject: [Baren 4234] correction. A few postings ago i gave a link to a specific essay by Ken Wilber on the evolution of art. I think that I gave the wrong like, sorry. The correct link is: http://www.shambhala.com/wilber/html/art.html This essay will make much more sense in connection to the current discussion. Jack Reisland ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V7 #545 ***************************