[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest               Tuesday, 30 March 1999       Volume 06 : Number 507

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From: April Vollmer/John Yamaguchi <jy6@columbia.edu>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:34:00 -0400
Subject: [Baren 3760] Day without Sunshine 

I love the new additions to Baren, new woodcutters from all over the world,
but no jokes from Grahm is a day without sunshine! BA5 is a great idea, but
save a few jokes for us here!

Brad, your site sounds great, hope it won't prevent you from sharing some
tidbits with us waterbasers now and then! So many issues cross over.

I envy Kim and Jean E. meeting at Southern Graphics Council...I want to go
next year! Sounds like a great time. I am interested in the light sensitive
film for wood....(don't tell Grahm I'm taking a Photoshop class!)

Jeanne, the Baren Digest is much easier to keep track of, I recommend it to
everyone. And I would suggets methyl cellulose as an alternative to rice or
wheat paste...it won't mold. (And you don't need a nice lady neighbor to
mix it for you! Though it might be an agreeable way to make friends!)

And Dave what is "all purpose flour" made from? the all purpose plant? I
heard you can make a good paste from the finely ground rice flour used for
dumplings. Your quote from Saff and Sacilotto on hanga is very nicely put.
They seem to have the best coverage of the general printmaking books.

I think Sarah Hauser's suggestion of "Asian paper" is a great improvement
over the nonsensical 'rice' paper we used to hear about. I use washi,
myself, but I guess it's too specific to include those beautiful Thai,
Chinese and Korean papers made from similar fibers.

Oh yeah, I wanted to ask Jack Riesland about BINDERS. I'm still a little
puzzled whether there is any binder in the Japanese color formulations.
Dave's colors sound like they are just pigment in alcohol. But I have heard
conservators argue against using a color without a binder. I've been adding
gum arabic. What's your opinion?

April Vollmer

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From: Shireen Holman <tholman@clark.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:45:55 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3761] Re: Tom Galt ... 

Dave wrote:
>Interesting to see you refer to Mr. Tom Galt on your web pages.  

Tom was a cousin of mine. I used to visit him regularly while he was in the
process of translating those poems - he had so much fun with them! Then I
heard him in a poetry reading in Boston, reading some of them - he put a
lot of energy and excitement into his work. The publisher is Princeton
University Press - I'm surprised they wouldn't reply.
Shireen

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:31:14 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3762] Re: Maria's prints ... 

>Maria wrote:
>> My website is up at:   http://www.mariarango.com

Hi Maria,

I missed seeing any woodcuts the other day and only found the b&w
charcoal.   Did I go somewhere else????
 Today I find the woodblock   ....lovely....and the piece called 'Fat &
Happy"   You gotta luv that....  A corkcut??????  So what is a
corkcut.....a print that drinks a lot??? Sorry.   The imagery is
reminiscent of Henry Moore..
I find B&W stuff interesting.  Quite a challenge not to have colour as a
crutch. I recall the first year of art school we were allowed any one
colour as long as it was black.

Regards,

Graham

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:55:11 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3763] Re: Day without Sunshine 

April wrote.....
>but no jokes from Grahm is a day without sunshine!

I find that your keyboard does not have an "a" that will record after
pressing the "h".   My name always comes with a little "a"   Like, being a
Canadian 'eh', expression, eh

I have pages of the quips and sayings, so they will keep coming.  It is
interesting that some of our members think they were ....nonsense.  Private
e-mail are always interesting.

>(don't tell Grahm I'm taking a Photoshop class!)

(Don't tell April) I luv that software .....what version are you working with.

I have a question..... you use methyl cellulose as an alternative to rice
or wheat paste.
then you say later in your posting ......"I have heard conservators argue
against using a color without a binder. I've been adding gum arabic".
Question.  Do you use both at once or on different occasions.?

Regards,

Graham

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:59:48 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3764] A New approach 

Dave wrote....
>Rather than rice, I use all-purpose flour for my paste,

>(Now that I've said that, I should also add that I never seem to have
>much success 'cooking' it by myself, and my friend Sadako brings over a
>fresh batch each time I start a new print ...    Some 'pro' huh?)

What a concept .......  Some guys invite you to see there etchings...

Cheers

Graham

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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 11:33:45 -0600
Subject: [Baren 3765] Re: A New approach/ rice-paste 

Regarding rice/wheat paste or whatever.....I use a paste made out of fine baby's
rice cereal & water. I cook it for a few minutes to get that translucent effect
Graham talks about....it does stink after a day or so in the open.....but you
can put in the frig for days...I use the cereal to make sure that my prints will
grow to be tall & strong just like their daddy!

My exchange print "Baren 98" was done with cereal paste.......but I would not
recommend you lick it!

thanks.........JULIO   {:-)

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From: dean brink <interpoetics@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:41:49 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3766] Re: Maria's prints ... 

Maria,

I really like what you're doing in this
>http://www.mariarango.com/woodguy1.jpg 
print.

I am curious about the process of designing the print. 

(Did you make use of a computer graphics program such as Adobe Photoshop in
designing it?)

dean

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From: "Jean Eger" <jeaneger@LanMinds.Com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 10:08:00 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3767] Re:   Baren Digest V6 #506

Hi Hideshi,
Here's the web site for a gallery that might be interested in
representing you.  They represent several Japanese artists, plus have 19th
century Japanese prints.  I've been in the gallery and it is very nice and
also is in the heart of the San Francisco downtown shopping area.
http://www.castlefinearts.com

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From: Jack Reisland <reislandj001@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:33:47 +0000
Subject: [Baren 3771] Re: Day without Sunshine 

April wrote:
> Oh yeah, I wanted to ask Jack Riesland about BINDERS. I'm still a little
> puzzled whether there is any binder in the Japanese color formulations.
> Dave's colors sound like they are just pigment in alcohol. But I have heard
> conservators argue against using a color without a binder. I've been adding
> gum arabic. What's your opinion?

The binder in traditional Japanese print making is the rice,wheat or methyl
cellulose mixed with the pigment on the block.

Jack Reisland

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From: Daniel Kelly <daniel@mail.vowel.or.jp>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:17:47 +0900
Subject: [Baren 3774] Re: Day without Sunshine 

Jack wrote:
>The binder in traditional Japanese print making is the rice,wheat or methyl
>cellulose mixed with the pigment on the block.

Re: Jack and April
Not quite Jack. The binder in Japanese pigment use is ox bone glue. Rice is
not exactly used here as a binder as it is used to control viscosity. Wheat
is totally unused by any professional I've ever met.  Metnhyl cellulose is
almost unknown here, except in "western" shops such as universities and pro
litho or etching shops

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:31:02 +0900
Subject: [Baren 3775] Pastes and binders ... 

April wrote:
> Dave's colors sound like they are just pigment in alcohol. 
> But I have heard conservators argue against using a color 
> without a binder

The alcohol I think, disappears while the stuff is in the bowl.  Its
only purpose is to get the pigment 'wet' so that it will blend in the
water properly.  

I've really asked around a lot about this binder business, getting mixed
answers from different craftsmen.  The general concensus is that it's
not necessary in this style of printmaking, but it _is_ sometimes used
with 'hard' pigments, to keep them in proper suspension in the bowl.

I know that it seems difficult to believe that the pigment won't become
'dusty' later on, but that just doesn't happen.  

The binder of choice (when used) is the stuff known as 'nikawa', or
'sanzenbon', and this is just a gelatin made from animal bones - very
similar (identical?) to the stuff known as 'hide glue' in the west.

But to emphasize - I generally do not use any binder.  The powder
pigment is stored in a 50/50 alcohol water mix, then blended in a bowl
with the desired amount of water, then mixed on the block with the
paste.  That's the 'formula' ...

***

Daniel wrote:
>  Wheat is totally unused by any professional I've ever met. 

Dan, this seems to be perhaps another of those Tokyo/Kyoto differences. 
Every printer here that I have ever asked about this is using paste made
from supermarket flour (wheat flour for making bread), or 'udon kona'
(wheat flour for making those fat udon noodles).  And before posting
this I made a couple of phone calls to confirm this and to make sure I
wasn't getting this wrong ...

Again though, I should emphasize that my contacts are only with the
traditional guys - what the modern people are doing I haven't the
slightest idea.

***

Graham wrote:
> What a concept .......  Some guys invite you to see their etchings...

Actually Graham, it works _very_ well indeed.  In that documentary
program for example, it mentioned that I was divorced, but didn't show
friend Sadako at all (the producer wanted to leave a 'he's having a
tough time' impression.

The result?  I get letters ... and I get letters!  One for example that
I have here at the moment, contains a poetry quotation (from the
Hyakunin Isshu of course).  "These two rivers shall rush together
..."    What do you think she is trying to say ...?

Dave

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From: "Daniel Kelly" <daniel@vowel.or.jp>
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 11:16:52 +0900
Subject: [Baren 3776] Re: Pastes and binders ... 

Dave wrote about binder's
I second everything about the need for binder. I also use pastes (but from
Kremer Pigment in NY) and only water. The pigment (paint if you will) is
forced into the fibers by the water/ woodblock process. Hence the beauty of
the colors in the woodblock technique. My works don't rub off either.
As for the paste. I use rice paste, like all the traditional printers here
in old fashioned Kyoto. Wheat is a foreign thing in the land of Yamato Nori.
But thanks for the tip, we'll try it. Only thing is that here in Japan its
just so easy to buy rice paste already prepared. You totally answered my
question as to weather it works as well as rice paste. It appears to me that
for you its slippery with the wheat paste!

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End of Baren Digest V6 #507
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