[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest              Saturday, 20 March 1999      Volume 06 : Number 496

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From: <DARICH@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 09:59:11 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3651] Re: press vs baren, and baren question 

Dear Shireen,
I often us a barren to print my blocks using oil base inks.  I also print
using an etching press.  Which method I us to print depends on the size of
the area I am printing and on whether I want any special effect.  I see
little difference in the quality of the printing.  For relatively small
areas of print the barren can be faster than the press.  I am printing on
dry paper.  I have used both student grade and professional grade barrens
as well as the Teflon type sold by Daniel Smith.  The professional grade
traditional bamboo barren gives the superior result in the shortest time. 
They are surprisingly expensive considering the cost of actual material but
you can recover it yourself with a little practice and it should last many
years.  The difference is the size and rigidity which delivers an even
pressure to a wide area simultaneously.

Andrea

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From: Gayle Wohlken <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:00:36 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3652] Re: Baren Digest V6 #495 

Jeanne said 
>  had soaked my paper pretty good and had it ready between the blotters.

Jeanne, are you using oil based ink on damp paper with woodcuts?
And a baren?  Do other people do this?  Do you have to do this with
thicker papers?  I never heard of using damp paper for oilbased
baren-burnished woodcuts.

> Yes, there is a catalog called Cheap Joe's.

I have one, but I didn't find anything useful for woodcuts.  Did you?

* * *

> but i tried some kitikata
> also and had the same bad luck.

Kitakata is not sized, Agatha, so that's probably why the paint
went on badly.  I don't know about the other paper you used.

Gayle

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From: Shimizu <shimizu@mail1.nai.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:03:02 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3653] More pigment questions 

This is week # one for me with pigments so here are my questions:
    1. How serious do we have to be about all the warnings on the jars?
I purposely selected colors that didn't have the lethal warnings but all
of them say to "wear a respirator and gloves". Is promising not to
inhale enough?   And gloves?!?
    2. Do I really have to use gum arabic?  Actually I forgot to buy it
so I went ahead and mixed the pigments in water and left them overnight
to dissolve better before trying them.  The next day, when mixed with
rice paste on the block, the colors seemed fine but,-- will something
horrible happen later?

Holding my breath in Connecticut,

Lynita

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From: Gayle Wohlken <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:16:42 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3654] Re: Baren Digest V6 #494 

Wow, Maria's prints!  I love "Silent Night".  
and the Canyon image with the red ground.
What paper did you use, Maria, for these.  The
first one looks like kitakata (my alltime favorite).
I am always partial to black and white because
the design elements have to be powerful.  And
I love that if it's good, it can take your breath away.
I feel that with "Silent Night".

Gayle

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From: James G Mundie <jimandkatemundie@juno.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:19:20 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3655] spotty gouache 

Agatha wrote:

>i was trying to use some gouache and a baren to print, and i was having a 
>great deal of trouble.

Well, I'm one of them there oil-based printers, but if I've been
absorbing the information here properly, I'd say the key to your problem
is this:

It seems you were trying to print the gouache (sp?) without the critical
rice paste.  Rice paste is the necessary medium to make the pigment "go".
 It will help it to spread and print evenly (seems to also help keep the
pigment from drying to quickly, no?).  You'll need to experiment a bit to
get the right mixture of paste and pigment so that it is neither too dry
nor too "squishy".  Some use methyl cellulose as a substitute for rice
paste.

Given a proper baren, you should have no trouble printing hanga on Rives
BFK.  kitakata, however, is an unsized paper, so you will need to apply
size to it before you introduce moisture or you will wind up with a big
ol' mess.

Good luck,
James Mundie, Philadelphia USA

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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:26:29 -0600
Subject: [Baren 3656] Re: Who's Baren.. 

Had not visited that page in a while. Nice to see new faces there.......
Lynita, Ruth & Maria.......great prints......can't pick a favorite!

WIll you all be participating in the next exchange ?

Thanks.... JULIO  {:-)

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From: Kim Itkonen <kitkonen@ucsd.edu>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 10:46:26 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3658] Re: More pigment questions 

Lynita wrote:
>     1. How serious do we have to be about all the warnings on the jars?

Lynita,
Take the warnings very seriously.  Maybe you didn't get cadmium or
cobalt - and you did get only earth colors - it's still very bad for
your lungs and the rest of your body to be breathing the dust from
pigments.  When you are working your nose is pretty close to the source
and it is IMPOSSIBLE not to breath the dust.  It gets everywhere - the
air will be filled with little particles.
At the very least wear a dust mask.  A respirator is better. Some
pigments are very easily absorbed into the skin, others not.  Latex
gloves are cheap.  If you only do one - use the dust mask. 

I do ceramics and the dust from chemicals is a big issue that is often
ignored. I try to always - Think Silicosis (otherwise known as Black
Lung).

Sorry to sound so alarmist.

Kim Itkonen

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From: Shireen Holman <tholman@clark.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 14:56:19 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3660] Re:  baren question 

Dave wrote:
>I should perhaps be careful what I say here, but yes, having a 'student
>grade' baren from Daniel Smith may certainly be a problem.
 
Thank you everyone for your replies. Dave's reply made the scales fall from
my eyes! I had thought that my baren seemed very much like a toy, and I
wondered how people could make seriously good art with a thing like that!
It reminds me of all the #2 pencils you buy in supermarkets, drug stores,
etc. for your kids. When I was a kid (in India) the pencils actually worked
well; these are so poor one wonders how kids could ever wish to become
artists, because they don't grow up with the experience of enjoying the
feel of making marks on paper, and the fluidity of using pencils (or
watercolours, or any similar supplies).
Anyway, I seem to remember at some point someone on this forum mentioning
good barens costing around $1500. Do you know of anyplace that I could buy
a tolerably good, but affordable baren?

Shireen

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From: judy mensch <mensch@interport.net>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:29:01 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3661] Re: press vs baren, and baren question 

Agatha- I don't think your problem has to do with the baren.  You mix
your gouache with the right amount of water for the color and block you
want to print, then putit on the block with a small brush and spread it
around with another larger brush.  Then you take the glue or starch,
which ever you're using,which is also mixed with water,  and dab that on
to the block and brush it all around too.  After you do that routine a
couple of times the block should have a certain amount of wetness to it
without being too wet. Then print.  Eventually you will figure out how
much water and glue to use, but it takes time. Rives BFK is good for
intaglio, litho or silkscreen, but not for this.  The baren needs alot
of strength, but those lines or spots, that I think you're getting,
should not happen. I hope this helps and I haven't misunderstoon you
email or what it is you want to do.  Judy

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From: baren_member@woodblock.com (Marco Flavio Marinucci)
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 19:10:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Baren 3662] Workshop 

Message posted by: Marco Flavio Marinucci

Hey Graham, what is the ultimate price of the wshop? Where do we fly 
to? Thanks.

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 08:55:47 +0900
Subject: [Baren 3663] Where 'baren' ? 

There seems to be a lot of interest in affordable, but useable barens. 
Quite some time back we discussed some of these points, and one
excellent solution was pointed out.

Hop over to the Encyclopedia, and check out the 'Murasaki baren' that is
available from Woodlike Matsumura here in Tokyo by mail order.

http://www.woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/001_02/001_02_frame.html

These barens are a tenth the price of the 'real' thing, but very very
useable.  Matt is using them I know, and I keep a couple here for
occasional use too.

Matsumura-san's English language catalogue still isn't ready yet, but he
can handle simple request by English in an email.

You can get information on his shop at:

http://www.woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/007_01/007_01_frame.html

***

Lynita wrote:
> How serious do we have to be about all the warnings on the jars?

If you're worried about dust from pigments, I cannot too highly 
recommend using them in pre-soaked form.  This way, you only
have to deal with the powder _once_ and then forever after, you just
use the 'paste' that you made, and never have to worry about loose
powder in the air.

And colour mixing becomes an easy dream!  Instead of trying to add
a 'bit more of this' dry powder and a 'bit more of that' dry powder to a
fluid mix in your bowl (an exercise in frustration), you simply add a
bit more paste, which blends instantly.

http://www.woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/onepoint/018_06/018_06_frame.html

I use a 50/50 alcohol/water mix, and keep the resulting paste in 
glass coffee jars with very tight lids.

http://www.woodblock.com/temporary/pigmentjar_1.jpg
http://www.woodblock.com/temporary/pigmentjar_2.jpg

Dave

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From: "Daniel Kelly" <daniel@vowel.or.jp>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:03:47 +0900
Subject: [Baren 3664] Re: press vs baren, and baren question 

I'd like to add a different answer to Shireen's question about her student
baren. For your problem of printing I believe the difficulty you experienced
is first because you only misted the paper. This is common in etching. But
its your talking about woodblock where high pressure is not necessary. By
dampening the paper with a wide brush with lots of water so that you can
just handle it you will be able to soften the fibers so that little pressure
is used. We sometimes print with our bare hands on very rough hard paper
this way. The trick is weather you need size to hold the paper together when
you pull from a tacky ink. If you use a starch paste to "fatten up" a water
based pigment then the viscosity of the paint will make it easy to use and
not pull apart your paper. If you need to use stiff oily pigments then you
may need stronger size. If you need more pressure you might try a spoon or a
bb baren. All your problems of the time it took are common to people
starting on this type of relief printing.
D

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From: "Daniel Kelly" <daniel@vowel.or.jp>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 09:24:26 +0900
Subject: [Baren 3665] Re: More pigment questions 

In answer to your second question Lynita I think you can just mix your 
pigments into a paste with only water and print fine with them. You don't
need anything else. Glue added to the paint as you print takes care of your
problems... and rice paste is neutral PH.

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From: Jack Reisland <reislandj001@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 16:01:52 +0000
Subject: [Baren 3666] Re: Ebb and Flow 

April wrote:
> Interested to hear Jack hasn't found more in the library in Hawaii, I
> thought it would be a stronghold for Japanese prints. 

Actually I found an amazing amount of published material on Japanese prints
and printing technique, my point was that there was hardly any material in all
those books that isn't already covered somewhere on the Baren site. Book after
book is the same basic explanations of the process. In fact, David's one-point
lessons and the discussions they engender cover far more of the little details
of the printing process that the whole Library of books I searched through.
The several hundred page Japanese book of full sized reproductions of Hasui's
prints was awfully nice, though.
   As you suggested, it is sort of a stronghold here for Japanese prints.
There are some very good galleries selling Japanese prints, and the Honolulu
Academy of Arts has the largest collection of Japanese prints outside of
Japan. In fact, the Hokusai and Hiroshige museum show from the Michener
collection (now owned by the Art Academy) that was touring the mainland will
be opening here in five days. Actually, the first of three shows will be
opening. They will be augmenting the show that toured with many duplicates of
different states of the same prints from their collection of over 5,400
prints, so the show will be broken up into three successive parts. I'll be
there.
  On the other hand, I recently went to the 71st(!) annual juried show of the
Honolulu Printmakers, and found the current state of woodblock printmaking in
Hawaii to be pretty dismal. I was also disappointed to find that there is no
one offering woodblock printing classes or workshops here.
  The weather sure is nice, though.

Jack

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From: "Daniel Kelly" <daniel@vowel.or.jp>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:06:25 +0900
Subject: [Baren 3667] Dan Smith 

Hello Printers

In reference to David's waste of time with Daniel Smith I thought I should
quote a recent letter:
"a few years ago, Dan went through an unfortunate divorce and
during that time, he sold the store.  I remember Nik saying that the new
owners were not up to snuff and  word was going around that Dan might try
to buy the store back..don't know how true that story is."
Things change...reputations carry on... profits rule... over the years there
have been plenty of catalogue art materials suppliers. But its clear that
mostly they are just another reseller.
D

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From: "David Stones" <stones@mb.i-chubu.ne.jp>
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 12:14:02 +0900
Subject: [Baren 3668] Re: more baren questions

Dear All,

Re Barens and buying. Probably mentioned somewhere but not recently,
rewarding printing with a baren also depends on your ability to re-cover it
with its bamboo sheath (and to get a supply of these) so as to get a tight,
flat surface. Unlike the ball-bearing types, you need the skill to replace
the cover of your purchase regularly (and this, again, cannot be learnt
only from books).

If I'd give advice, and if you haven't bought a baren yet, think of getting
a cheap one first/as well - to use/practice on... it's one incredible feat
of twisting and turning and tying all at once when you first try (you wish
you had therefore hands) to re-cover. I've never mastered it to the level
in the books... However expensive a baren you buy, if the cover's faulty,
it is probably useless.

The last point, for those large-handed printers out there... like me... get
one that FITS your hand. My two were made to suit my hand-size by a guy in
Tokyo (cost about 700 US Dollars at the present rate of 118=1 Dollar) and
they will last me for ever... I just could not get my hand firmly inside
the first baren's grip. Thank goodness is was only a 60 Dollar one (which,
buckled and battered as it maybe, is still used for rough proofing)... I
used this one for my first three years...

Dave S

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End of Baren Digest V6 #496
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