[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest               Friday, 19 March 1999       Volume 06 : Number 494

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mkrieger@mb.sympatico.ca
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:19:21 -0600
Subject: [Baren 3623] No doubt about it 

Hi all

One of the elements of woodcut that I find so attractive is its ability
to concentrate imagery -- distil it to "cut" or "not cut". However we
may hesitate or prevaricate about making the mark on the block, the mark
once made is emphatically there.

Mary Krieger
Winnipeg MB

------------------------------

From: "Gregory D. Valentine" <gvalen@linfield.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:25:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 3624] Re: Contributions 

  Jean-- You are in good company.  Shiko Munakata used a razor knife. I
don't know what Picasso used, but I don't know what he didn't use, either.
                                                   --GV 

------------------------------

From: <hudson@panther.middlebury.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 06:14:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [none]

I think it's healthy to have these discussions about what belongs in Baren
and what belongs elsewhere.  I have enjoyed the comments on various oil
ink techniques, presses, etc. eventhough I use primarily a baren & a
wooden spoon.   These comments by folks who also do woodcuts expands my
understanding of prints.   One of my favorite photos in a woodcut
instruction book (actually relief printing:  Rosemary Simmons & Katie
Clemson's "The Complete Manual of Relief Print-Making") is one of Katie
atop a road roller printing a very large print--the kind of thing used to
flaten blacktop on roads.  And even Yoshida Hiroshi used an overlaid zinc
relief plate for the key block on some prints.  Well, the best way to talk
more about woodblock printing is to do that.   Thanks, James, for the
questions about prints in the exchange.  I'll give my answer some thought
& return before long.
Health, goodprinting to all.
Ray H (Vermont)

------------------------------

From: <hudson@panther.middlebury.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 11:42:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Baren 3626] printed or handcolored 

James asked if the part of my exchange print (the Slopes of Mt. Abe) was
printed or handcolored.   It was printed.   Here's how I did the print.
It was carved on 4 blocks of shina plywood.   The first printing was of
the key block--all the black mountain, the tree with a bit of green, the
border and the light lines on top of the hills.   The wide
blue-changing-to-red section was on a separate single block--alone with
some of the autumn tree colors.  I print on a thin unsized Chinese paper
called Sheng Shuen (the thickness is the thinnest I can find and I think
it's called Dan).   The paper is dampened by spraying it and that's the
trick--if it's too wet, the watercolors run all over the place and if it's
too dry they don't sink in.  I print with watercolors from tubes.   The
section in question was done by applying the watercolor to the wood using
a wide brush and blending the two colors together.   In this type of
printing, the paper is weighted down on the block before color is applied.
The paper is then laid back (but still in place by the weight) and the
color is applied to the block.   Sometimes it helps to just to a blind
printing with no color so that the paper absorbs a little more moisture.
After the color is applied, the paper is lowered, a protective sheet is
already on top of it, and I rub it with a baren or wooden spoon.  The
print will dry out completely between printings, but it's easy to hit it
with the spray bottle again for the next round.   When it's all finished,
I dampened it again--lightly--apply a border of paste all around the back
outer edge and glue it to a flat surface.  There it dries and stretches
tight.   Because the paper is so thin, I usually (as in this case) mount
the print on some heavier paper (in this case Rives BFK).
A word about the print.   Mt Abraham is in the Green Mountains of Vermont,
one of the peaks reaching 4,000 feet--pretty low for you folks out in the
West of the U.S. and Canada, but high enough to get me out of breath.
It probably doesn't help to know that the village at the base is named
Lincoln.   It also probably doesn't matter that no one in Lincoln would
recognize it in the print!.    The textured black sweep on the mountain
is an inadequate tribute to Munakata's wonderful landscapes.   I outlined 
a couple of regions & then went on the attack with my knives!  (I really
enjoyed Phil Bivins' Tribute to Munakata!)   The little triangles on the
west side of Mt. Abe is a tribute to some very famous Mt. Fuji landscapes.
	I have sometimes handcolored prints.  I've enjoyed applying the
watercolor to the back of the print (again, in the Munakata way). You have
to be sure the key print is very very very dry, because on dampening and
on applying watercolors the lines can run at times.But it's a great
technique and produces and real depth in certain papers.   Of course,
doing this makes each print a bit unique, something I have no problem with
provided I'm happy with each result. 
Ray H

------------------------------

From: "Gregory D. Valentine" <gvalen@linfield.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:48:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [none]

  A post script: I'm really sorry Dave, that you are feeling down about
Baren, because I'm rather up about it.  I'm off-line for a week or so 
(hope there's a Baren to come home to;) I've enlisted a proxy to get me a
slot on the print exchange-- I'm psyched.

------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 20:03:29 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3628] Re: Vox Populi ... and Vox Dei ... 

There has been some interesting posts regarding this forum and the blah
blah blah about press and ink. There has been convincing discussion pro and
con and trust this point of view will be of value.

I understand Dave and his desire to focus on Hanga printmaking.  It is
important that the focus be maintained and all else evolves around the
traditional hanga technique.  I'm sure it will.....won't it. )<:

However.

It would not be in the best interest of the learning process for artists to
limit themselves to just one basic method.  Sure it is important to learn
about hanga, but not more important than the need to grow with ones
knowledge of other techniques/method and the application of them to create
images. It is, after all, our lot to create a visual statement. As one
grows with his/her work and development, it is inevitable that other
'thingies' will be adopted to achieve that objective.

The discussion here could well be the spark that will motivate some to move
on, to develop a varying approach to an ancient tradition.

We should not have further splits in the Baren, As already pointed out we
have been through some of these phases (digital, inkjet printing etc ) and
we will go through more.  Splitting could dilute the potential knowledge of
this forum.

My suggestion to those that are not interested in diversification of
knowledge is to ......turn the volumn down........If you don't like the
"Subject" as posted send it to the trash with a simple click of the DELETE
button.
Not a big deal nor a labourious task.

So to those who think we have gone astray.... Hanga in there.

Regards,

Graham

PS  Gary......your a baaaaad boy.....(<: but its good that the subject was
brought up.  It has been a focuser.  Ray lets change is nick name.

------------------------------

From: Phil Bivins <pbivins@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 23:06:04 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3629] Re: printed or handcolored 

Thank you Ray H for the kind words about my (and Munakata's) contribution
to the Baren exchange. Some time ago I purchased the book, "The Woodblock
and the Artist", about the life and work of Shiko Munakata. For some reason
I thought it might be a "How to do" type of book. Instead there are many
pictures of work that was produced by this wonderful man. I really love the
way he uses color from the back side of the print. I thought maybe I could
do that technique using the paper that I printed on. The paper is too thick
and sized, so it did not work like I wanted. I also thought about using
different color blocks. But after I made the key block and saw the contrast
of the black ink and paper along with the touch of red from the chop, it
seemed to be enough. I had a great deal of fun carving and printing, but
the idea came from the Master...Munakata. I can only hope he would be
pleased, maybe that has been confirmed by the nice words  that I have
received regarding this print. I will treasure this collections of prints
along with the others to come for a life time. What a gift to pass on to
future generations.
Phil

------------------------------

From: "Daniel Kelly" <daniel@vowel.or.jp>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 12:55:42 +0900
Subject: [Baren 3630] Re: printed or handcolored 

Ray,
I liked your explaination. I just wonder why you don't size your paper to
make the handeling a little easier?

------------------------------

From: "Daniel Kelly" <daniel@vowel.or.jp>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:00:51 +0900
Subject: [Baren 3631] Re: Michelle Hudson 

> And even Yoshida Hiroshi used an overlaid zinc.

Tokuriiki used to do the same thing. I think it was quite wide spread when
the newspapers used lead and zink type presses. I have found that I can
print waterbased inks off of glass, concrete, (anything really), by
controlling the viscosity with rice paste. Etched glass should be a good
alternative to carving and will hold up for fine detail.
d

------------------------------

From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 21:13:27 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3632] Re: critiques. 

Jeanne wrote.... in responce to James question.
>Could be a glove, a bracelet, a watch.........but methinks it was a mistake.

My first reaction was ......what a wonderful print..... I am partial to
figurative work and was so please to see someone submit a piece.
The line and bold knuckles did not interfere with my eye. To me it was a
bracelet.  The linear marks on the other arm translated into an arm band
and balanced the arms.  Free spirit comes to mind.

Interesting how images can trigger certain factors to the viewer.  And
isn't that what it is all about.


Re Dean  Brinks contribution...

The suggestion of James to use transparent red would be a step in the right
direction. On the subject of direction I have a hard time moving ("path of
vision" ) within the print.  My eye gets stuck on the strong spot of
dominant red colour in the lower section of the image.  Is there a reason
this should hold the eye, Dean

Ray's contribution.
This is strickly a subjective comment and does not mean to say the print
has a fault.  Being that I painted in transparent watercolours since the
year dot. (40+) I can't help but wonder if the aliens were done with
transparent inks, that the aery effect would have been even greater.
Interesting print. Good distribution of shape sizes and positioning of
colour.  Were you lucky or did you know what you were doing. ....one big
smile (<: actually many smiles...... (<:     (<:     (<:      (<:      (<:
(<:
Hey Marnie I think I just shot myself in the foot.  Ray will probably
cancel out on the workshop.....

Matt's contribution
I have talked about an image making a statement without the need of
words.......this does just that.  Way to go Matt, and hey good colour and
distribution of same.  Don't you love how the path of vision of the darks
keep you from leaving the picture.  I have a belief that if you can keep
the attention of your view long enough it has a mesmerizing effect and
their hand will reach for the wallet.

Elizabeth's contribution
Another statement without words.....Can't you just smell the pine and sense
the breeze.  Lovely use of understated spaces...

Hideshi's contribution.
I could look at this for hours and keep seeing more of the subtle
happenings.  Quite lovely.....  Need a technical question answered please.
The bokashi on the circles.  It is so smooth in the transition it looks for
the world like air brush..... Do I have to go and wash my mouth out with
soap.?

John Amoss' contribution.
Another statement made. The cat the is getting back to us now not later.
Breaking the retangular edge gives it a free spirit. The space (brown
floor) in relationship to the cat gives the animal its space....and we all
know that about that with animal.   Don't you just want to scratch it
belly....well what are you waiting for.

More later.

Regards,
Graham

------------------------------

From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 15:45:06 +0900
Subject: [Baren 3633] Video is ready ... (well, nearly ...) 

Lots of interesting feedback in from the group about which way we should
go.  Thanks for this; it gives me plenty to chew on while I'm busy
printing here this week ...

A couple of things:

I happened to be looking in the 'Incoming' box over at the ftp site the other
day, and found some prints by Maria in there.  You might want to check
out the updated 'Who is Baren' page, where you can now see her work.

http://www.woodblock.com/forum/who.html

Please note that I don't look in there every day as a matter of course. 
If you upload something for me to see, please also drop me an email and
let me know about it ...

***

You may remember a month or so ago Jack Reisland over in Hawaii
mentioned that he would be able to make some duplicate copies of the
documentary on my work that was broadcast last January.

He's had a copy of the tape for a while now, and is almost ready to
roll.  Anyone who wants a copy of the tape, or who wants to be put on
the list for simply viewing and passing it on, please go over to:

http://www.woodblock.com/forum/video.html

... and sign-up.

For those of you who don't know what this is about, the program was a
one-hour documentary on my ten-year printmaking project to reproduce an
old poetry book.  It is _not_ a 'How to' video, but of course there are
many printmaking scenes in there, including some from local carvers and
printers here in Tokyo.

And now the part that will make you sit up a bit - although the program
was of course produced entirely in Japanese, Jack and his father-in-law
have gone through the entire thing and produced an English language
run-down on what it is all about.  They will be copying this and
including it with each copy of the tape.  (This must have been an amazing
amount of work, and I'm just shaking my head over it - how can I
say 'thank you' to them ...)

Sound interesting?  Hop over to the sign-up page then ...   (If you want
more details on the program itself, you'll have to ask Jack; I still
haven't had the nerve to watch it ...)

Dave

------------------------------

From: Sherpsm@aol.com
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 02:59:02 EST
Subject: [Baren 3634] Re: Vox Populi ... and Vox Dei ... 

Dave and all of Baren
I am fairly new here and was thrilled when I found this site. I think the
exchange of information, technique and sources is invaluable. 
I have a great respect for all medium. A knowledge of other techniques can
enhance one's work in untold ways. However as Baren grows, the print exchange
grows and also the daily email grows. I find it a bit frustrating to daily go
through a lot of email that has little or no relation to Wood Block printing.
In the next year how many new members will join and how far afield will the
questions go? It would be easy to become disinterested in a non specific site.
I think that perhaps a split may become necessary. It would be a shame if this
specific site would become generalized. Perhaps a common site with offshoots
to fill all needs.
Also future exchanges could also be arranged as to meet certain criteria. This
could keep edition size manageable. (Certainly with crossover exchanges a
possibility.)  
A Voice on the Internet
Joe

------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V6 #494
***************************