[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest             Thursday, 25 February 1999     Volume 06 : Number 460

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From: "Jean Eger" <jeaneger@LanMinds.Com>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:29:06 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3204] Re:   Baren Digest V6 #459 

Mary,
I tried some alum I bought in a pharmacy, but it wouldn't dissolve in water,
so the next thing I tried was Bryant labs' alum.  I now have enough alum to
last a decade or more.  Way more than enough to last into the next century.
Glad to know about the pickles, though.

Graham,
I guess I should ask you straightforwardly, how much does your basswood
cost?  Did I get stiffed or did I get a good deal?  You must have been
feeling fishy yesterday, because you saw bait.  I guess I am not good at
joshing online.  Where's your good  will, Graham?
Jean

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From: Gayle Wohlken <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:05:11 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3205] Re: Baren Digest V6 #459 

But, Dave, > God-awful  isn't what anyone has in mind when they  try something.  I can't even carve those  pretty little lines you people do so well. I've been carving for years and my style is bold and messy.  Would this even lend it self to Japanese style woodblock prints?

I'm sorry if I sound negative.  I did try once or twice in color with dampened paper (sized, even--not like that thing I sent you on kitakata when I didn't know about sizing) but I also discovered something about my carving style.  The wildness of it looks better in black and white.

Anyway, the box of materials waits for me. I still have to come up with some pigments. And grasp an understanding of that paste to pigment ratio and do something with that brush (I guess we are supposed to angle the edges on the application brush).

It's always something; just when you think you're ready, too.  I think maybe you are right, Dave, there is so much good technical  information here and people who are  seasoned can really get help.  People who have never tried can feel overwhelmed and I'll say it again, I don't want to make something "godawful" , I want to like it a little.  I want a little thrill.  

Gayle Wohlken

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From: Gayle Wohlken <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:07:58 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3206] Re: Baren Digest V6 #459 

> All it takes is practice.  Go
> for it. Its not hard.

said big strong Graham...:-)

Gayle

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:22:44 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3207] Re:   Baren Digest V6 #459 

Jean wrote....
>how much does your basswood cost?

It cost me about $8.50 board ft.

Your original post stated.......
>Today I went to MacBeath Hardwood in Berkeley and bought two boards of
>basswood 5 feet by 13 inches by 2 inches, for $85.  Then I took them to El
>Cerrito Mill and Lumber and they will "bust" them to four boards 5 feet by
>13 inches by 3/4 inches, for $35.

Question..... How do you get four board 5 ft x 13" x 3/4 pieces out of a
stock that is  5 feet by 13 inches by 2"
If this is possible at Cerrito Mill and Lumber I will bring all my lumber
down and have it milled and go home with twice as much.

>Did I get stiffed or did I get a good deal?
The cost of 85.00 seems in line at $8.50 board ft   If the guy at the
Cerrito gets, as he should and can, two board out of what you supply, you
will be paying around 3.50 board ft making to the total cost 12.00 board
ft.  this makes it a high.

The guy that is doing the milling is..... to put it politely.... gouging
you. I pay 1.00=A2 board ft to have the wood resawn and plained.  That is
what he will be doing. That cost would be in line if it were $10.00. He
obviously does not want to do small jobs so prices it ridiculously high. It
is a usual business practice.

Hope this helps.

Graham

Jean wrote....
>I guess I am not good at joshing online.

Sure you are...its just that you took me seriously on the baiting.  Better
known as rising to the occasion.  (<:

>Where's your good  will, Graham?
It is on my sleeve like all good Canadians.

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From: "Ray Esposito" <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:28:07 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3208] drill bits 

Someone, I forget who suggested that for better control when using a Dremel
or other similar tool, drill bits used by dentists are best.  Even though
they may be worn down to where they are useless for teeth, they are still
great for wood and most of these are diamond tipped.

Just for the fun of it I walked down to the dental office and asked them to
save the bits for me.  Today I stopped by on other business and they handed
me a box with over a hundred bits.  What a great suggestion.  I recommend it
to anyone who uses or wants to use a tool for part of their carving.

Cheers
Ray

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From: "Ray Esposito" <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:36:48 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3209] Re: Baren Digest V6 #459 

Gayle wrote:
>I've been carving for years and my style
>is bold and messy.  Would this even lend it
>self to Japanese style woodblock prints?
>I'm sorry if I sound negative.
Gayle

As another rookie, I want to take issue a bit with this.  Yes it is negative
and shouldn't be.  I too cannot carve those beautiful thin lines that Dave
cuts and most likely never will.  But of course a bold and messy style lends
itself to the "Japanese" style.  At lerast I hope so because that is my
style.  I don't know if Dave or Graham would agree with this statement but I
look on the Japanese style, not as curving thin or messy but using the
tools, the pigments, the brushes and the papers that are part of this style.

>The wildness of it looks better in black and white.

I take the opposite view here.  I love the bright colors and think they meld
great with the bold and messy.

Cheers
Ray

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From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:44:23 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3210] Re: Baren Digest V6 #459

I really relate to Gayles plight with the Japanese printmaking techniques. I
wanted to do one in that medium and was totally frustrated.
I made such a mess of the block that it was beyond my understanding. I am
usually a neat person, BUT I cannot seem to control the tissue paper with
the wet block, wit;h the watercolor, with the rice past , with the brush and
the pile of damp paper!!! Yikes!!! As Gayle stated she was overwhelmed. I
think I would rather be underwhelmed.  SSSOOOO , as a consequence , in my
state of mind, not wanting to ruin what I thought was a rather interesting
woodcut, I began another oil based woodcut.
I enjoy a challenge but I think I will pass on this for the time being.
GGGGRRRRR!!!!!

Jeanne

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From: "John/Michelle Morrell" <jmorrell@ptialaska.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:41:55 -0900
Subject: [Baren 3211] More Wood 

Here are a couple more western hemisphere sources, since I haven't seen
anyone else mention them.

Constantine's (my latest catalogue is from 1994, so I only assume they are
still in business) has a wonderful variety of hardwoods in plankwood.
(1-800-253-WOOD).  I have bought basswood planks from them in the past.
In that old catalogue, they list a store in the Bronx (1-718-792-1600) and
in Florida (1-800-443-9667).

Joe Spratt in Ontario does the finest endgrain blocks I have seen  in a
remarkable variety of hardwoods. (905-945-9621).

Michelle (of the wrestling ink blots)

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From: "Ray Esposito" <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:06:11 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3212] Re: More Wood

>Constantine's (my latest catalogue is from 1994, so I only assume they are
>still in business) has a wonderful variety of hardwoods in plankwood.
>(1-800-253-WOOD

Michelle

The phone number above is a fax line.  Do youhave another?

Cheers
Ray

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:24:08 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3213] What's important? 

 Gayle wrote....
> I can't even carve those pretty little lines you people do so well.

Ray wrote....
>I don't know if Dave or Graham would agree with this statement but I
>look on the Japanese style,

I think Ray, you are talking about technique, rather than style.

> not as curving thin or messy but using the
>tools, the pigments, the brushes and the papers that are part of this style.

I'm sure I have said this before, at any rate here it is again.

I don't believe the technique should ever take precedence over the image
and the statement you endeavour to make.  To be accepted into competitions
and or important exhibition by technique alone will not usually carry the
day. Your work must make a statement and have new and interesting imagery.
Pretty picture is fine for over the couch by will not be considered at the
high-end level of competition.  Not to say there is anything wrong with run
of the mill exhibitions ..... they all serve a purpose.  On numerous
occasions I have adjudicate shows and the guy the gets the nod is the
artist that shows they have taken a risk, doing a piece out of the
ordinary. Sometimes the technique is less than acceptable and unless it is
truly shoddy it does not matter.

In Dave's case what he does is top notch, because by his own admission, the
art is not his first priority. If he were to submit his work in a
competition it would be one, by definition, in which technique would be all
important, otherwise ...see ya....so long....come back when you learn how
to carve and print.......

I use the Japanese technique as a means to the creation of images.
Technically the stuff I do is marginal if not down right so-so compared to
the purist of the traditional standards.

My point of view regarding technique verses imagery is comfirmed by the
acceptance of my work by the Victoria Art Gallery. For those newbies, (the
show in June 99 with Walter J. Phillips). It is a show of coloured
woodblocks .... not just the lighthouse series.  This has put a lot of
pressure on me to do other kinds of images...... and so one arised to the
occasion......I hope.

Regards,

Graham

What am I doing here.....I will never get that damn print finished......CYA

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:27:22 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3214] Re: Baren Digest V6 #459 

>I really relate to Gayles plight with the Japanese printmaking techniques. I
>wanted to do one in that medium and was totally frustrated.

I some how thing you guy's  Gayle and Jeanne should be taking a workshop.
Your flustration is beyond our tolerance. (<;

I know of a good one in Sidney this summer.  (<:

I promise .... no flashing

Cheers

Graham

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From: Elizabeth Atwood <elizuno@midcoast.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 16:17:44 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3215] Ink and Barens 

To Chris and others......
I have been using oil base inks and brayers for years.
I am a great admirer of the work of our watercolor printers.......BUT, so
far, have not been tempted to indulge in the Eastern method. I fell in love
with the "European" woodcuts because of the qualities that are unlike the
Japanese work. In listening to all of the discussion of dampened paper and
tricky brush work, I am convinced that "my way" is a lot simpler and
satisfying.

(My watercolor urges are expended on watercolor papers with a brush...or,
often, I work with ink washes and pen or pencil line for illustrations.)
For woodcuts and printmaking, I prefer to work with a baren and impress on
dry and soft handmade paper.......but not the hard papers like BFK or
Arches. (except with a press and B/W)

I would think that dampening paper would raise the devil with registration.
Yes ??????

Question for April........what is a ballbearing baren? I visualize
something like a bean bag. Could you supply a cross-section sketch??? The
weight alone might make for easier printing.??

For Andrea.......How do you control your ink layers in those beautiful
reduction prints? In my reductions, I sometimes get a buildup that is
unattractive. Perhaps you have covered this in the Ency.???

To Graham......Notice in the latest issue of the Smithsonian Magazine an
article about your wonderful Canadian impressionist artist Emily Carr. As
they observe, she is sadly unknown in this country.

......ElizA

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From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:29:12 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3216] Ink and Barens 

Eliz wrote,
>Notice in the latest issue of the Smithsonian Magazine an
>article about your wonderful Canadian impressionist artist Emily Carr. As
>they observe, she is sadly unknown in this country.


Not entirely unknown, Eliz.   I have several of her books as well as others
on Canadian art, namely the Group of Seven, and was introduced to her work
at the McMichael Conservation Collection museum outside of Toronto. 
She had a lot of style.   Actually I think she lived in the Vancouver area,
didn't she Graham? ( Wasn't she a contemporary of yours?):>)

If I recall, she had a lot of pets too.   You might look up some of her
books, as they are quite interesting from her personal viewpoints.   I'm sure
the Canadian bookstores would have them, or if not, the McMichael
Conservation Collection. 

Another interesting one is "A Painter's Country" by A.Y. Jackson.  
Autobiographical, but quite interesting. 

Gary on the prairie
11/28 FYI Ray.

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From: amoss@mindspring.com (John Amoss)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:40:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Baren 3217] brush softening 

I would like to issue a general S.O.S. on brush softening:

I have had poor success softening a 30 mm hanga bake printing brush. I've
singed the hair ends on a hot metal surface and have been rubbing it
against a dragon skin sheet (artificial sharkskin). I know this should take
a few hours, but I think that I've spent at least 3 hrs. now and the brush
still pretty seems scratchy against my skin.

I would imagine that in order to keep the hair ends in contact with the
abrasive, one shouldn't press the brush down too hard, yes? How "singed"
does it need to be?

Thanks for your help!
- -John

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From: "Bea Gold" <bnjgold@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:20:35 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3218] Frans Masereel Re: Baren Digest V6 #459 

Have any of you seen Frans Masereel's books Die Idee and Mein Stunden Buch?
You won't feel bad about not doing Japanese prints once you see these
wonderful rough woodblock illustrations.  I think they were printed in the
early 30s and are very political.  No words except for introductions in
German.  

Bea Gold

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From: LaCinzia@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:30:41 EST
Subject: [Baren 3219] Re: huh? 

> It means an additional $1000 (CDN) on top of the etching press price.
 >So, you could get a 36x48 litho press for $2895 CDN, plus shipping, etc...
>BS 

And that is a screamin' deal!!!!!!  BTW Brad, never really thought about your
initials before......

CW

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End of Baren Digest V6 #460
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