[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest             Tuesday, 23 February 1999     Volume 06 : Number 457

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From: Marco <mmflavio@slip.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:35:26 -0700
Subject: [Baren 3158] Re: Everybody can't catch everything 

April,
in regard to the ball bearing baren, do you think it works well? Are you
quite happy with it?
I do not want to deal with the wrapping either (do not have chance to have
someone explain or show how it is done).
Please let me know I am looking to buy a new one this week...big project
coming up.

Marco Flavio

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From: Jacob Roquet <roquet@giex.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:28:39 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3159] large mask 

Been away for awhile hope all are well.

In etching, what works really great is to use acetate for the mask instead
of paper. In fact the if you are running a reduction print you don't even
have to cut out the area and the ink on the block or plate will hold the
acetate in place. The good news for baren folks (geez that almost sounds
like you guys might be impotent) you can obviously cut it with greater
accuracy since its clear and for those of you who use "water" inks you
won't have to recut it often. I'ts also great for us "oilres" since you can
simply wipe it clean. It will leave a slight embossment, but use as thin a
piece as you dare.

Jake

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From: Marco <mmflavio@slip.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 16:03:12 -0700
Subject: [Baren 3160] Wood? 

After reading the post on kinds of wood to use I looked around to see what
is available.
Seems like Birch plywood is easy to find in San Francisco, CA, but basswood
(shina) is quite hard.
Any suggestions on where to get it either here or a tested mail order?
Thanks

Marco Flavio

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From: Phil Bivins <pbivins@mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:53:02 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3161] Re: Munakata with a twist 

Graham wrote:
>When you do this do you put his name on the print or reference to the
>originator.

Graham,
I copied this print only because I really liked it, with no intention of
selling. If I give one to another person as a gift, I tell them where it
came from. I don't take credit for the idea. The print that I made for the
exchange was another copy of Munakata's. I remember when I first started
Chinese painting, students were encouraged to copy from the masters. I
would not take credit for something I did not originate. As a newbie, I'm
still trying to develop my own style, but I have a pretty good idea about
what I like and what I think makes for a good print. I must have screwed
up, I don't think the print came through with my email. I'll work on that.

Phil

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From: "Jean Eger" <jeaneger@LanMinds.Com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 17:36:51 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3162] paper sizing

I too applaud Mary's wonderfully written account of paper sizing.  I began
to feel smaller and smaller as if I were swimming in a container of gelatin
and alum and then woosh, over the falls, being poured on to the paper.  Then
I was swimming along the large strands of paper fiber, following them like a
road, but getting mired in the glueyness of the gelatin as it settlled in
amongst the paper fibers.  Then I felt a big thud on my head as a clump of
green earth fell on my head and a soothing mess of rice paste buried my
upper torso up to my neck.

Sincerely,
Jean Eger

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From: James G Mundie <jimandkatemundie@juno.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:16:47 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3163] another one of the oily but dry types 

Chris,

I will also toss my cap in the ring as one of those here that prints my
blocks with oil-based ink on dry paper with a bamboo spoon.  Why?  That's
the way I was trained, I suppose.

As to why one would print with ink without dampening the paper first,
there are a couple of reasons:  1) there is no need to dampen the paper,
2) one can print on a wider array of papers, even those that are unsized,
3) dry paper eliminates the registration problems that come with
moistening paper...   there are others.

Mise le meas, 
James Mundie, Philadelphia USA

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From: "Bea Gold" <bnjgold@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 19:33:18 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3164] buying wood mail order. Bea Gold  Wood?

I order my Shina from McClain's Printmaking Supplies
PO Box 13734 Portland, OR 97213-0734 - (800) 832-4264 - 
they are very reliable.
I'd love to know where to find cherry.  Anyone? Bea

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From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:59:27 -0500
Subject: [Baren 3165] a few replies ... 

Dave wrote,
>I sort of buy your viewpoint on this, and agree that you _do_ have more
>variables than I.  But I wonder just what those 'old master' type of
>artists from the old days would say about this.  When they got a
>commission, or order from their patrons, I rather think that they were
>>expected to have it ready 'tomorrow morning'.  Although they were
artists, they were expected to do their art in a very professional
>'craftlike' way - quickly and efficiently."

    I suspect you're right here Dave, however I question the creativity 
of an artist who is drafting for a patron, as the patron is the one with
the concept, not the artist.  He is following someone else's imagination
and using his "art" like a craft. " Paint me a mountain landscape, or
fishes swimming, I'd like to display it at a party I'm having tomorrow night.  Can
you do it?"  "Yes sir, no problem sir.  I have my paintbox in the foyer,
it'll be hanging on your wall by dinnertime, assuming of course I'm _invited_ to
dinner."

  This will not be a creative masterpiece, just a standard picture of the
artist's. Something that was already drawn for him by his patron in his 
imagination and carried out technically by a draftsman.

Dave continues, 
>- walk into your studio ... you have a clear idea of what kind of work
>you intend to do today.   sit down at your easel/sketchbook and lay
> out some preparatory sketches for the work.   grab a cup of coffee,
> sit back and look them over.   pick one.    get to work on the main piece.
>when it's done, go home.

>My time scale might be slightly exaggerated, but my point is not - you
>should have your technique so well learned, that _all_ aspects of your
>art are completely under your control.  And when I say 'technique' I
>also include that thing that you guys call the 'muse'."

O.K.  a curious thought. 
Craft is one thing, and creating is another.   Dave, we've touched on
this before, but let me elaborate a little.  

  A craftperson produces something whose concept is already
 in mind.  For example,  the blockcutter is  given the hanshita to follow.
The printer is guided by the artist or publisher in color selection.  He
knows what he has to do, he just has to do it.

  The artist must create the concept.  The two are not necessarily
separate, and often are a mix, as in our own group.  In traditional
printmaking however I suspect that assignments were handed out and expected
to be carried out without delay.  If I've been carving blocks for forty
years,  and here's another one, well let's see.   Where's my coffee and the
 morning paper, I'll have it done this afternoon.

    If an artist does this, I suspect that what he's turning out are
"potboilers".   Something he has proven success with, and it's only a
matter of treating a certain scene with the usual formula of artistic
symbols.
This is not creative art, it is simply an art reduced to a craft.  You are
_making_ something, not _creating_ something.  
 
    I don't know what a "creative muse" is, only that there are times when
original creativity happens more spontaneously than at another time.     
This creativity is usually kicked off with some inspiration, or some 
excitement about an idea that sets one to work .  If you can control how
you get this inspiration, that's great. 
   To some extent you must set expectations for yourself, and to some
extent your psyche will rebel against the pressure and refuse to cooperate.
      When you are so inspired, you find that you are more
creatively alive, whatever excitement there is in the process is conducive
to creative thought.   But it is not always commanded.
   You may have written poetry, Dave, but I'll bet that if when you were at
the Emperor's palace, had he suddenly turned to you and said,  David san,
would _you_ please create a new poem and present it
now?  the pressure would choke off your  poetic thoughts, which  would come
to mind much more readily were you  in less pressured surroundings and were
spontaneously "inspired".
  The "muse" is no more than timing, or mood.  You may be insulted by
someone and taken aback speechless, but give you time to work on it and no
doubt you'd have a witty comeback.  Yet under the 
pressure, you were lucky to mumble something.   Same thing.
Creativity does not always work well under pressure.
   "You can lead a muse to water, but you can't make him drink."  

   The way it works for me is more like this.   I set down to do a
composition and have some subject in mind, or find one.   I do a
preliminary sketch and set it aside.   I come back later and now certain
things seem wrong.  I try to identify just what it is about them and try to
figure out how it can be corrected.  There may also be certain things that
look good.  I leave those alone.  The problem areas are given thought, and
I try different things out to see if it solves the problem.  If it seems to
work, I go on to the next thing

I have a bad feeling on and see if I can improve it.  It's trial and error
all the way.  But it is also challenging my creativity every step of the
way.  Each problem surmounted inspires me to go on.         When I have set
the print aside any number of times and come back to it to again be
pleasantly surprised, I have more confidence that I am nearing completion. 

   As it nears this sense of completion, it also looks homogenous.  Even
though it is a compilation of various solutions, if it ends up looking
right, all of those disappear into a wonderful illusion and the image is a
success.
   So with me it is both setting to work, identifying problems, and working
out solutions.  The solutions just take a little lucky thinking sometimes, 
are more spontaneously generated, and don't respond to the timeclock.

Does this make any sense?

Gary

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From: Sherpsm@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:23:27 EST
Subject: [Baren 3168] Re: New Printer/Member 

Hello to you all. I am new to your group. My name is Joe and I have been
reading your comments now for a just a few days. 
I am happy to see that I am not alone in my search for answers in the
discipline of a woodblock print. My first attraction to Japanese Woodblock was
the simplicity and beauty. How deceptively simple they are. My few attempts at
a clean, well executed print has only raised my respect for those individuals
who made (and currently make) it look so easy.
 
I'm thrilled you people are out here sharing you knowledge and experience. It
is as if I have been given a free membership to an esteemed guild. Thanks for
keeping this process alive. 

Joe

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 23:26:08 -0800
Subject: [Baren 3169] Re: New Printer/Member 

Joe wrote....
>I'm thrilled you people are out here sharing you knowledge and experience. It
>is as if I have been given a free membership to an esteemed guild. Thanks for
>keeping this process alive.

Welcome Joe..... You will enjoy and find most answers to the techniques of
the medium.

Just a warning......watch out for Ray......(beat you to buddy)

Graham

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From: Jack Reisland <reislandj001@hawaii.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 22:52:56 -1000
Subject: [Baren 3170] Re: a few replies ... 

Gary wrote:
>    The way it works for me is more like this.   I set down to do a
> composition and have some subject in mind, or find one.   I do a
> preliminary sketch and set it aside.   I come back later and now certain
> things seem wrong.  I try to identify just what it is about them and try to
> figure out how it can be corrected.  There may also be certain things that
> look good...

Glad to see that the e-mail gods have finally favored you with a complete
posting. I have a very interesting book, "Drawings by Utagawa Kuniyoshi, from the collection of the National Museum of Ethnology, Leiden" where it is
easy to see throuhg the corrections made on many of his sketckes and working
drawings, that his methods were probably very similar to yours. He often
drew small sketches, then worked out details in full sized drawings, often
redrawing over and over the positions of lines. He often even used
preliminary underdrawing in many of his larger drawings, something that was
unusual in his time (one must remember that this was all done with brush and
ink). He also often changed the position of figures or design elements
before the final working drawing.

       However, Kuniyoshi's contemporary, Hokusai, appairently "drew
carefully and meticulously with short strokes, pausing at each curve, as if
to concentrate on the continuation of his design". His style reminds me much
more of a calligraphy master, who approaches his paper with a complete
design fully worked out in his mind, and proceeds, through concentration, to
express it in one burst of brushwork.

          I guess the point is that there have always been different work
styles, even among the masters working in the same time period.

Jack Reisland

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End of Baren Digest V6 #457
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