[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Wednesday, 10 February 1999 Volume 06 : Number 441 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bea Gold" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:59:24 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2994] Baren Folder, Bea Gold Thanks for the recipe, Jeanne, I made a Baren folder and as good ideas come in I drop the message in it. ------------------------------ From: Bill Ritchie Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 08:21:57 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2995] Re: baren covers. Graham wrote: >What this world needs is a how to video. When I was on the brick-and-mortar campus, Akira Kurosaki visited. He's the guy who makes the barens they sell at Daniel Smith and probably other places, too. He was experimenting with "substitute" barens. We videotaped him "live" (i.e., camera verite, not with production quality in mind) both in black and white and color. Years later, Izumi Kuroiwa and Mark Leonard (hubby/wife team) made "Workshop in Japanese Woodcut" and she demonstrated a wrapping of a baren with traditional bamboo sheath. Bill H. Ritchie, Jr. ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:15:11 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2996] Re: Moderation of the list Greg , When you first showed up I was impressed and please to see that you would be contributing. Well that first impression has be reinforced. Thank you for the contribution --- 'Right on' I have written Dean and suggest that rather than carry on the barbs at the expense of the server that a personal post would be well advised. I think we could all improve the atmosphere by this kind of action. The bottom line is I don't really care, (and I suspect others) if 'so-and-so' has a hang up with 'whoever'. I have more important matters to attend to.......like being a grumpy old man...... Regards, Graham ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 12:09:38 -0600 Subject: [Baren 2997] re: getting back to business... Now that we have two lists/forums going and things are starting to calm down from the rush of the print exchange...... I wanted to take time to thank Dave and all others who contributed in the past to the encyclopedia and the One-Point lessons. As someone who is starting out in water prints, does not have a print in the "oven" all the time and who usually deals with editions in the single digits...that resource was invaluable to get me thru the print exchange. Many early errors and many re-reads of the lessons allowed me to grasp the fine-points of the art and to jump over or conquer each obstacle. Things like....paper being toooooo wet, the hair in the brushes being toooo long and splashing pigment all over my boards, the right mixture of pigment & paste, the softness of the paper (Dave; I get it now!), the right order to print the color blocks, the use of towels to adjust moisture sheet -to-sheet, slight adjustments to my kento register,...etc, etc... these were all covered in the lessons and came back to me time-after-time with each mistake or with each discovery. Although I had Toshi's book by my side thru the whole effort, I can tell you that the Baren lessons had a bigger impact on my successes & failures. Those of you "old masters" of this technique (Dave B., Dave S., Graham, Matt & the others) thank you for your invaluable lessons. For those others who have publicly expressed a fear at trying water, GO FOR IT ! Baren is there to help. Enough said, just that I am suffering from withdrawal, and I need a fix, Dave ? When can we expect a return to the one-point lesson contributions ? JULIO {:-) ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 13:15:19 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2998] archival tape Jean, I think I'm the culprit that suggested surgical tape, which in my limited experience had always worked fine for me. Had nothing to do with your medical history which I know nothing of. I think that tapes would be a good subject for the archives. Keep that surgical tape handy however, a few of the recent postings indicate it may be useful for wrapping up other things. Gregory, I'll insert my opinion here on your last post regarding editing of posts. My own feeling is that we ought not to limit the context of what our contributors decide to send in. Overall we have done pretty well, and if on a rare occasion someone drops a grenade in, well, we can toss it back out the window by simply hitting the "delete key and counting to ten before Ray jumps out of the Baren Bunker and takes em down. Incidentally, you have a very literate style which I like very much. Where were you educated? Gary ------------------------------ From: Gregory Robison Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 22:21:26 +0300 Subject: [Baren 2999] Moderation and woodblock Kampala, 9 February 1999 Dear Dave and Ray: Thanks for the clarification on moderation of the list. Actually, now that I think about it, allowing the occasional flamer may even encourage self-discipline, by making everyone wince and recognize that it's really each member's responsibility -- and not just a moderator's -- to keep the posted remarks germane, succinct and pellucid (gosh, like mine!:-)). On your smilingly delivered final remark, Ray, that "this long point - counter point has absolutely nothing to do with woodblock", may I rejoin that questions of procedure are always in order in any group, and have to be (provided they don't become the main order of business, of course!). It's the lubricant that allows the machinery of discussion to operate without too much friction and noise. It's not in the same category as, say, talk of a Renaissance fair... I do agree with your point (and I was trying to say this as well), that some amount off-topic banter to help put people at ease and encourage them to participate is itself a lubricant, and obviates the need for too much of the other kind. I have followed with interest the discussion of barens and possible materials for their fabrication. I have an old stand of bamboo on my property here, and have wondered whether I'll ever know enough to be able to make a baren, or resheathe my existing one. After reading Sarah's and GV's recent notes on this, however, it may be one of those simple-looking things that actually takes a ten-year apprenticeship to learn how to do properly... Are there descriptions or tips published someplace on making them? Also on the question of suitable woods as an alternative to cherry, I wonder if there is a generic description of what makes wood ideal for hanga blocks. What is it about cherry, and about the particular variety, that makes it good? I'm thinking of observable features such as cell or fiber density, maybe weight per board foot or cubic meter when dried to 18% or whatever...rather than performance features (i.e., how it behaves under a knife). Terms, in other words, that a tree or wood man would understand. Put differently, what are the descriptive features of a wood that make its performance features attractive for woodblock? I ask this because there are many tropical hardwoods here (that I have seen in furniture construction, for example) from local trees, not found elsewhere, and almost certainly never considered previously for this application. If I knew more precisely what I was looking for, I might hunt around a bit. Yours, Greg ------------------------------ From: James G Mundie Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:46:00 -0500 Subject: [Baren 3000] Patsy Wilson where are you? Patsy Wilson, it is urgent that you contact myself and/or Dave Bull offlist. If Patsy isn't out there, does anyone know what has happened to her? James Mundie, PhiladelphiaUSA ------------------------------ From: "Ray Esposito" Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 15:12:57 -0500 Subject: [Baren 3001] Re: Moderation and woodblock Greg wrote: >Thanks for the clarification on moderation of the list. Actually, now that >I think about it, allowing the occasional flamer may even encourage >self-discipline, Actually Greg, I don't think flaming is ever appropriate and hope I did not give that impression. There is a vast difference between a nasty flame from someone without the intelllect to have a meaningful discussion and a series of cuts and jabs among friends. Graham and I, Jim and I, and lately Jeanne and I, and a few others enjoy the give and take. Perhaps from an outsiders viewpoint this looks like flaming but among friends it is pure fun and before they comment the yshould learn what is going on. >On your smilingly delivered final remark, Ray, that "this long point - >counter point has absolutely nothing to do with woodblock", That remark was tongue in cheek. You need to understand my sense of humor. Of course procedures are always appropriate but I just wanted to "tweak" you a bit. :-) >Also on the question of suitable woods as an alternative to cherry, I wonder >if there is a generic description of what makes wood ideal for hanga blocks. Any discussion on wood is a little bit beyond my experience in the technical vain you are presenting here. But as a newbie to woodblock could we ask another question? Can the selection of a particular type of wood also be a factor of how many prints are to be made? If you want a large run, would not cherry be the selection of choice? Or if your run (edition, etc.) were to be modest, i.e. under ten, then a different choice would be made? Or if you required very fine lines as opposed to a broad abstract where lines were not important would that also not have an effect? I realize these questions are not exactly on point to your thoughts Greg but these are the kinds of things newbies ask about wood. Personally, since I use short runs and broad abstract designs, I would never consider cherry but perhaps there is a "perfect" wood I have not dicovered yet. Thanks for your thoughts. Cheers Ray ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:29:41 -0800 Subject: [Baren 3002] Re: Moderation and woodblock Greg was asking..... >I'll ever know enough to be able to >make a baren, or resheathe my existing one. You are going to have to resheathe the existing one eventually. They don't last very long. It would be difficult to give you a time frame as it depends of print size # of colours and other factors. Let me give you and example. On my web site you will fine Pine Island print at..... http://www.members.home.net/gscholes/pine.html (NOTE This is a NEW WEB SITE so change your bookmarks folks.) After do 30 prints from 6 plates and 14 impressions, I needed a new sheathe. If you have supply of the husks outside your back door then go for it and practice and practice practice practice ...well you got the idea. Bill Ritchie said...... "I'm lurking here with these videos on my shelf". Maybe he can copy this and sent it to you. >Also on the question of suitable woods as an alternative to cherry, I wonder >if there is a generic description of what makes wood ideal for hanga blocks. >What is it about cherry, and about the particular variety, that makes it >good? I am not able to get into the specifications of wood but I can tell you what to look for in wood so you can find something in you region. You want a wood that cuts smoothly. Some woods seem to grab the blade as thought the resin was acting as a hold back. This is particularly apparent in our BC Firs. The grain is very sticky and hard and the knife tends to jump from ring to ring. Cedar is soft and easily carved but the problem is the make up of the wood is stringy. Sitka spruce is the same. This stringy quality does not allow for a clean sharp cut 'across' the grain. It tends to have a ragged edge. Cutting with the grain is usually ok however the grain is such that it tends to cause the knife to follow it or be influenced and you can easily go off the designated line you are trying to cut. You want to find a wood that is tight grained and not too pronounced or obvious. You want a softness but yet crispness that will hold up (the small lines) under repeated burnishing. This is where Japanese Cherry shines and the second alternative is Basswood that is grown in Canada or northern US States. I have not found and Cherry here in Canada that works worth a damn. It is all very grainy. I'm still looking. We have a Dogwood tree here in BC that is a little harder than I would like, yet very tight and it's hard to distinguish graining. It is good for a finely detailed plate as it withstands a great deal of punishment. Happy Hunting. Graham ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:47:26 -0800 Subject: [Baren 3003] Re: Moderation and woodblock Ray wrote.... >Can the selection of a particular type of wood also be a >factor of how many prints are to be made? See posting to Greg and more info here...... Yes it would if one could have the luxury of choice. Basswood is just about it here if one wants any size at all. I do a lot of bigger sizes and a 14 to 16" wide board is my requirements. Dogwood is not available in large widths. then a different choice would be made? Still require a wood that will allow for fine detail and not breakdown by the burnishing. Basswood is good. I have printed up to 200 very small prints ...Fisher.... that stood up OK I am still working on the new piece (2 months and counting) that requires 18" x 24" size. The Shina plywood (solid) is not as crisp and strong as the Basswood blocks I have been using. I don't know why this is but it sure has caused problems of breakage on the small lines in the plates. What do you dooo....live with it and make it a design feature. >Or if you required very fine lines as opposed to a broad abstract where >lines were not important would that also not have an effect? Basswood is perfect for this. Cheers Graham ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 14:51:27 -0800 Subject: [Baren 3004] New e-mail address My new e-mail address is: gscholes@home.com My new url site is: http://www.members.home.net/gscholes/ Graham ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:11:49 +0900 Subject: [Baren 3005] Lessons ... Julio asked: > When can we expect a return to the one-point lesson contributions ? ... and also made a very important point about them: >many re-reads of the lessons allowed me to grasp the fine-points ... Those lessons are one of the most valuable parts of our Encyclopedia. Any particular one may not seem to have any relevance at the moment you first read it, but I think that if you dabble in woodblock printmaking for any length of time, sooner or later each of them will turn out to be of use. I _do_ indeed intend to keep up with that habit of doing one every week. These past couple of months have simply been too busy to spend time on the Encyclopedia. Give me another few weeks to try and put my routine back together after my current chaos has calmed down somewhat, and they will be starting again ... *** Jean wrote: >Some of the discussion on archival tape could go in >the encyclopedia, don't you think? Yes, yes, yes. Perfect stuff for a Q/A page. But I simply can't do it right now. If anyone out there has a bit of time to spare, can you help me with this? First, take a look at one of these 'sample' pages in the Encyclopedia to see what I want: http://www.woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/002_qa/002_qa_frame.html http://www.woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/006_qa/006_qa_frame.html ... and then go back through the last few days of the forum archives: http://www.woodblock.com/forum/archives/archives.html ... and cut/paste all the questions and answers about archival tape into a single long email, and then send it to me. I'll format it properly, and will upload it to the Encyclopedia. (Actually, if I just leave it there, maybe six people will help out ... So if somebody does have the time to do this, please post to the forum that you are doing so, in order that others won't duplicate your work!) *** Administration message: May I remind everybody (new members and old) to try and keep the 'quoted' material down a bit please. The last few days have seen some very long messages quoted and re-quoted, and this makes the [Baren] digest very difficult and frustrating to read. Digest subscribers have to scroll down through lengthy repeated quoted messages, but can't just skip through them, in case real messages are tucked away in there. Please only quote enough of the original message to allow people to know what you are referring to ... Thanx Dave ------------------------------ From: mkrieger@mb.sympatico.ca Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 20:08:40 -0600 Subject: [Baren 3006] an ideal wood for woodcut? Here's a list of wood qualities that are important when choosing wood to make a wood cut. How important each quality is depends on your image, your cutting approach and experience, your printing method, the number of prints you intend making, and the thickness of your wallet. The 'ideal' wood: * has a straight close grain - grain prints, so the more obtrusive the grain, the more you have to consider it when planning your design; also a close grain means a stronger structure to hold those little raised areas to the main part of the block, reducing chipping and splintering. * has a fine uniform texture - texture can also print so it can have the same obtrusive quality as a defined grain; uneven texture makes it difficult to cut smooth lines evenly. * easily worked with tools - sticky or extremely hard woods make carving extremely frustrating as do soft splintery woods. * hard, strong, durable - a durable wood will not crush under the pressure of printing maintaining the clear edges of cuts and clarity of any desired grain patterns through the printing run; will not bruise easily with normal handling. * does not warp easily - blocks need to remain flat to print evenly. * available in your area at a reasonable cost * available in the size you want to work - some types of trees do not grow very large in diameter and so the maximum plank available is limited. Plywood can help those who want to work giant blocks but is not available in every kind of wood. * light in color - not very important, but helpful in seeing what the ink is doing on the block. The list of woods reccommended in the texts I have on hand include: hard woods (difficult to cut but hold fine detail) pear, cherry, apple, beech, walnut, maple, sycamore, katsura, jujube, boxwood (wood engraving) soft woods (easier to cut, less fine detail possible) sugar pine, poplar, basswood (linden), white pine, willow List of woods I have seen baren members mention using: Cherry, birch plywood, basswood, Shina (basswood) plywood, dogwood, boxwood, lemonwood, tempered masonite, pine, cherry plywood, "doorskin" Greg, another helpful approach might be to ask which woods local carvers prefer. These will have many of the characteristics useful for wood blocks. If some other baren members would suggest any additions or revisions, perhaps we could use this to post to the Encyclopedia. I think the main thing missing from my material here is the printing qualities vis a vis the traditional Japanese printing technique. Oil based ink is pretty tolerant. All of these woods will work fine. Mary Krieger Winnipeg, Manitoba ------------------------------ From: Mariten@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:56:54 EST Subject: [Baren 3007] Re: Ligher side of cut wood Maria from Leisure Ville I'm entering a couple of woodcuts into a cooperative gallery show up coming end of this month. The theme was Duality, no other instructions. Sounded interesting, so here are my woodcuts: 1. "Enemy" is a rat being attacked, surrounded and nearly strangled by a snake, which turns out to be the rat's own tail. It is done in black ink on Okawara natural, Ingres tan, and BFK tan paper, about 24x18, illustrative very dramatic, a-la-Blake style. 2. (my favorite) "Cut wood" is a realistic depiction of a pile of cut wood. I am just cutting the birch block in a key-block style and not printing from it, although I will stain parts of it and cut out the highlights to reveal the block itself. The darkest color I will roll on the uncut parts. I will enter the 12x12 cut block as the finished piece (cut wood depicting cut wood, for the slow morning folks ; o). I know, I know, a picture is worth . . . I will have a web-site soon. Anyway, I often try to enter these open competitions with woodcuts to promote the craft; ends up, people are kind of fascinated by the method and I love to talk about it to passers by, especially in more informal settings such as outdoor shows. Many powerful passages in the books that can be downloaded from the Encyclopedia. Thanks. Maria ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V6 #441 ***************************