[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest             Saturday, 23 January 1999     Volume 06 : Number 421

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From: Cucamongie@aol.com
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:21:27 EST
Subject: [Baren 2767] Re: Baren Digest V6 #418 

Jean Eger wrote:
>Could you send me the book title and publisher of the catalog so I can
 >look it up on Amazon.com?   

Jean - the title of the catalog is "Hokusai and Hiroshige - Great Japanese
Prints from the James A. Michener Collection, Honolulu Academy of Arts" and
the publisher is the Asian Art Museum of San Francisco - you should probably
still be able to get a hold of one through the museum - it costs $45 and is
well worth the money - 

Best regards,

Sarah Hauser

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From: "Roger A. Ball" <beckorro@inquo.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:39:54 -0700
Subject: [Baren 2768] wood 

There are a couple of things I would like to offer in the dicussion of
Wanda's felled Cherry trees.  Number one,  they blew over.  Even though
strong trees sometimes blow over, it is most likely that these are the
weaker trees.  However, even after saying that, I'd damn sure be trying to
find someone with a good chainsaw to go out to the trees and find out.  If
you can look free why not?

Secondly, fine hard tight grain is desireable _for some things_ and not for
some others.  98% of our local Cherry is just terrible.  Most of the pieces
I've seen dried too unevenly and have small cracks along the grain.  I have
seen fine U.S. Cherry that was a joy to carve and not as brittle as the
stuff most folks think is wonderful.  I think Wanda would be more informed
(in a tactile way, at least) and might end up getting some blanks to try if
she is willing to get some help to get a rough cut (which someone after
firewood might even agree to) and then either hand saw and finish or send
it out.  I recently got a friend to take some thicker pieces of walnut and
was delighted to receive back fine, smooth blanks.

I guess what I'm saying here Wanda is, I'd sure encourage you to at least
go see the trees.  If they start cutting pieces for firewood, it shouldn't
be too hard to nab some endgrain for engraving or heartwood for smaller
cuts.  The wood might be great and you may be able to get a bunch of it,
but you'll likely need some help unless you have more equipment than most
people.

I wish you all joy,

- -Roger

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From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:04:45 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2769] Re: Replies ...  

RE; dirty, sticky, messy, unhealthy, gooey, grimy, "ink"
LOL

Jeanne

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From: Hideshi Yoshida <dodoland@silver.plala.or.jp>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 01:20:31 +0900
Subject: [Baren 2770] Dave on TV 

Hello every body !

Long time no see . This is Hideshi .
I have been VERY Very very busy to make my new work ,
but I finished it last Sunday . It took seven months and half .
You can see it on my web site . <
http://www1.plala.or.jp/Hideshi/processE.html >
Though I haven't updated it perfectly , I will do it soon.

Two days ago I watched David-san on TY .
I saw himself , his life , his prints and of course his show .
I enjoyed the program however I think it was too short .
I want to see more , one hour is not enough . I don't know if I saw something
about him or not . I hope you will have chance to watch it in your country .

I went to a gallery to see his exhibition with my girl friend in Jan.10th .
There were ten pieces of his new prints on the wall with explanation and
the other side there were 90 pieces he has ever made .
Every work was so great , especially I was surprised by the carving for hairs .
The explanation said he could draw four lines in 1mm !! I can't belive it is
humanly possible .

I got question David -san .
One is about colors . My girl friend used to take a Ukiyoe-print class in college .
That class was for investigation , not for making woodcut print . She has assisted
in getting ready for Ukiyoe exhibition . She said that original prints had quiet colors 
but your prints' colors look much brighter than the original ones . Did you
arrange colors ?

Another question is about composition .
Though I think you copied the original , I don't think some prints were well
composed . Somehow characters in every work were placed on very leftish/ 
rightish and there were very large blank space on the other side , moreover they 
didn't work , make prints look better . Is this an ordinary way to design in Edo 
period ?

Sincerely ,

Hideshi

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From: James G Mundie <jimandkatemundie@juno.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:08:56 -0500
Subject: [Baren 2771] Re: Baren Digest V6 #420 

Giselle wrote:
>I have lately acquired a small "clam shell" type press that I hope to 
>use in conjunction with my carved prints to make small artbooks.  The press 
>is in great condition except for the roller (of course!).  

This is only my opinion, but you may be better off without those rollers.
 I've tooled around with a number of these sorts of presses and the
consensus from my experience and that of friends who own presses like
this is, "Forget the rollers.  Ink it up yourself!"  The same seems to
apply to Vandercook proofing presses when one is trying to incorporate
image with text.   Very often, the block and the type require different
amounts of ink in order to print with the proper 'weight' and balance. 

 The automatic inking the rollers provide is usually adequate for type,
but any block containing an image is liable to suffer from the same
treatment.  I've found it best to disengage the rollers, ink 'er up with 
a hand brayer and then print.  This has several advantages:  you have
complete control over the amount of ink applied to the matrix, you can
print multiple colors in the same pressing, and you don't have to take
out and clean those darn rollers afterward! 

***

Speaking of presses... at long last, the etching press I ordered from Dan
Patrick in Comox BC has arrived on my very doorstep.  Shipping took a bit
longer than usual what with snowstorms and holidays, and there was a
brief hullabaloo at the Customs House... but it's here!  

I must confess, however, that it is still in its crate until I clear room
in the studio and have purchased new blankets et al -- and all of these
[Baren] mailing cartons have returned to their owners.  

Soon, no reasonably flat piece of copper, zinc, plexiglass or linoleum
will be safe from me and my meddling. 


***

Dave wrote:

>And who knows, if I see enough interesting discussions about that sort
>of thing going by, then maybe one day I too might be encouraged to try
>using some of that dirty, sticky, messy, unhealthy, gooey, grimy  
>'ink'...

Gasp!  Dare we even consider the possibility?  :-)

Mise le meas,
James Mundie, Philadelphia USA

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From: April Vollmer/John Yamaguchi <jy6@columbia.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:26:51 -0400
Subject: [Baren 2772] Re: Baren Digest V6 #419 

I want to see "Dave's Life Story" too! Let us know if we can get a copy of
the video so we can invite over that Japanese friend to translate!

Thank you Grahm for repeating your varnish story. I have been using that
all-shina plywood, and it is very frustrating how crumbly it is when you
need some fine lines.

Also I was interested in Marco's offset problem. First, I wanted to clarify
that the rice paste is not part of the color. It is added to the color on
the block to make it print smoothly. I have been making my color from
pigment dispersions mixed with gum arabic as a binder. The sumi ink used in
printing has an animal glue for a binder. Do the other colors used
traditionally for hanga have a binder?

My colors offset too, even if they are printed fairly thinly and the paper
is not too saturated. Perhaps this is because I use fairly large areas of
strong color? Does anyone know if drying out the paper between printing one
color and the next will prevent this?

The transparency of colors varies from one pigment to the next. For
example, cadmiums are quite opaque, pthalos very transparent. Calcium
carbonate added to a color will make it more opaque so it covers over
another color rather than blending. Is anyone else working with pigment
dispersions? (besides Sarah H.!)

April Vollmer

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:56:13 -0800
Subject: [Baren 2773] Re: Replies ... 

Dave wrote....
>I don't have any experience with other types of cherry, but I suspect
>that Walter Phillips might have a different viewpoint on this, Graham.
>Unless I misunderstand what he wrote, he made nearly all of his prints
>on his local Canadian cherry ...

I will check with the daughters who live here in Victoria.
Thanks, you have twigged my interest.

>And who knows, if I see enough interesting discussions about that sort
>of thing going by, then maybe one day I too might be encouraged to try
>using some of that dirty, sticky, messy, unhealthy, gooey, grimy  'ink'

Amen, AAAAMEN.......
(<:

 Graham - Victoria BC

PS George,  where do you hang your hat.?

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:17:51 -0800
Subject: [Baren 2774] Re: wood 

Roger wrote.....
>I guess what I'm saying here Wanda is, I'd sure encourage you to at least
>go see the trees.  If they start cutting pieces for firewood, it shouldn't
>be too hard to nab some endgrain for engraving or heartwood for smaller
>cuts.  The wood might be great and you may be able to get a bunch of it,
>but you'll likely need some help unless you have more equipment than most
>people.

Good point Roger.
Wanda, see if you can find a furniture or woodwork shop (small guy) that
would take a chunk of the trunk say 16 " long and saw it into boards on a
bandsaw.
My bandsaw will handle a 12" round piece cuting with a 3/4" blade. Works fine.
Industrial type saws are better and you should be able to fine someone that
has this tool. ou will then have to plane it but most likely the guy with the saw has a
planer.

Let us know how you make out.

Graham

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From: Gregory Robison <grobison@swiftuganda.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:08:41 +0300
Subject: [Baren 2775] Get rollers, don't use them 

Kampala, 22 January 1999

To follow up on Matt's response to Giselle re: roller reconditioning, the
firm Brown Regrinding is located at 2074 E. Center Circle, Plymouth, MN
55441 Ph/Fx 612-553-1461.  They seem to be well regarded in the letterpress
community from everything people have been telling me, but I haven't used
them.  The firm I used in Seattle (Frontier Designs) did good work, but is
now apparently defunct. I was "rough quoted" $80/ea. for 8.5 in. Kelsey
rollers (on 12.25 in shafts) through Columbia Rubber Mills, a firm in
Klackamas, Oregon.  Their fax is (503) 557-9923. The bigger question for me
at the moment is what to spec in terms of the actual composition of the
rollers. I know that brayers are often now made from polyurethane plastic
and polyvinyl chloride, which wear well and stand up to all kinds of
solvents (even tho' we don't use such solvents any more, do we?), and
rubber can be all sorts of things, depending upon the additives.  The
people at Columbia Rubber Mills thought I needed Nitrile rubber (whatever
that is) with a hardness of 25 to 30 (but what's that scale? I'm not in a
position to say "make it closer to 25 than to 30").

I also can't help commenting on James Mundie's remark that maybe, Giselle,
you should be happy to have the press and just as happy not to have
rollers. My most recent "major" (for me) project was getting my Christmas
card out, and I used my clam-shell press in precisely this way.  I was
forced into it: I cut a block that fit the chase, but that was just
slightly too large to allow the rollers to clear the block at the lowest
point in their cycle, meaning that the inking would not be even.  I
hand-inked by brayer, as James said, and used the press only for most of
the impression (did a little hand-work on each one after it came out) and
for register.  Platen presses are great for registering color.  As long as
the press run isn't too long, it's very workable.  And the cull rate is
very low.  You'll never learn to do this from the traditional letterpress
people, but it's a great "hybrid" way to use traditional technology. I
agree with James also on the need to treat blocks and type separately.  For
letterpress work, artwork is normally mounted "type-high", which may lull
the printer into thinking it ought to be run with the type.  Results are
invariably better when it is handled separately...but this is a big topic.

Greg Robison

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:01:31 +0900
Subject: [Baren 2776] Re: reprinting 

Interesting mix of responses to my poser about whether or not to reprint
my poets' series ...

>The obvious solution is for you to spread the wealth around to 
>your fellow craftsmen  That way you can fulfill your customers needs 
>and increase the wealth for everyone! 

>hire some help!  Is there room for another printing bench in your apt? 

The idea of sending my blocks out to other printers to run off more
copies of these prints is indeed an attractive one.  But there is one
_very_ large drawback: the minute that I put out a print that was carved
by me but printed by somebody else, my _entire_ output then comes 
under a cloud of'suspicion'.  

Whether this is right or wrong, I have to admit that I'm pretty proud of
my printmaking abilities - proud of being able to do all the different
parts by myself.  I know that I shouldn't be thinking of my future
'reputation', but I can't help it.  I would like to be known as
the guy who _personally_ achieved that level of skill.  But the minute
that I put out even _one_ print that had part of it done by a pro - that
reputation is dead dead dead.

"Did he really print that by himself?  I've heard about that Bull guy - 
he gets pros to do his printing for him ..."

For those of you who are artists, this is perhaps not so much of a
concern, but for this guy who is 'only' a technician, to have somebody
_else_ do the technical work would erase the value ... at least in my
own mind, if not in everybody's.

So it's starting to look as though I'll be doing my own reprint of the
series.  But not at the cost of interfering with my new project.  I
think I'll simply tell people that I'll do the reprints one-by-one as I
have time, probably one a month.  If they want it 'right now', I can't
help them - if they think it is worth waiting for, then I can keep them
happy.  

And I guess there's rather a nice side benefit too; having this group of
people committed to collecting the series over the next ten years will
give me quite a lot of freedom to explore other things without having to
worry about whether or not the ideas are financially sound or not ...

***

Hideshi-san mentioned coming to my exhibition ...  Thanks for being
there, Hideshi, and I'm sorry that we had no chance to sit and talk
peacefully.  I've got a lot of questions I'd like to ask you about your
prints.  Let's get together one weekend maybe next month, when we've
both perhaps got a bit more free time.

As for the questions:
>She said that original prints had quiet colors but
>your prints' colors look much brighter than the original ones . Did you
>arrange colors ?

Yes, I have arranged new colours for those prints, but as to the 'quiet'
effect, I think that this is mostly because of the age of the prints in
the museums.  Those are of course a couple of hundred years old, and the
paper and pigments are now wonderfully soft.  My prints are hard, sharp,
and brittle ... because they are brand new.  I want to live to be 150 or
so, so that _I too_ will be able to enjoy these prints that I have made!

>Though I think you copied the original , I don't think some prints were 
>well composed . Somehow characters in every work were placed on very 
>leftish/ rightish and there were very large blank space on the other side , 

Interesting of you to notice this.  Shunsho was a master designer of
prints, and I think you would have no complaint if you saw a collection
of his other work.  _This_ series though, was not part of his 'real'
job, designing for the kabuki theatre.  It was just a 'toss-off' little
book, something of no importance whatsoever.

His faces and personalities are wonderful.   Those he did himself.  The
layouts, kimono patterns, colours, etc. are awful.  These were almost
certainly the work of 'nobodies' in the publisher's shop.  This is why I
added so much of my own input when re-creating the series.  

I tried to explain these things to as many people as possible at the
show, and I even considered making the main title of the show:
"A two-man exhibition of woodblock prints" by
Katsukawa Shunsho / David Bull

Although I didn't do that, _every one_ of my prints is labelled with
both of our names.

***

Everybody should note that Hideshi has put up an image of his new print:
http://www1.plala.or.jp/Hideshi/processE.12-4.html

Hideshi-san, in this photo are we looking at the block, or at a print?  
How big is this print?  
Are you printing with a press or a baren?

It looks incredible, and I can well believe that it has taken you seven
months to finish.  I look forward to seeing the real thing!

Dave

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 23:21:36 -0800
Subject: [Baren 2777] Your lastest effort. 

Hideshi wrote....
>New work at.
>http://www1.plala.or.jp/Hideshi/processE.12-4.html

I can believe it was a seven month venture.  The design and imagery is
really quite fantastic. It sure must have been exciting for you to see it
come together.

An artist by the name of Asher (spelling?) comes to mind.
I see David has asked you a few questions. I will be interested.

Congratulations.

Graham

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End of Baren Digest V6 #421
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