[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Friday, 8 January 1999 Volume 06 : Number 405 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ray Esposito" Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:12:20 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2594] Re: Digital art II >And I suppose we should restrict discussion of what types of wood to use to two >postings per month; methods of drying, 3/mo; meaningless short messages 1/day. Dean I love sarcasm, even when poorly done. May I remind everyone that Baren is a woodbolck, woodcut forum. We get into these other areas and no one objects for the most part. But there comes a time where these sides trips need to cease and we need to return to woodcut. This digital business is fun but we need a break from side trips and a return to woodcut. Cheers Ray ------------------------------ From: Jacob Roquet Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:43:16 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2595] Re: Digital art redux Ray wrote: >I want to suggest that NO ONE bring up the subject of digital art > until March 1, 1999. On that date, we can begin to fight again. We will > have all taken a deep breath and can get it on. Man, I almost fell for it, Ray. At first I thought you were serious about this but then I realized you were just being an excellent moderator playing devil's advocate just to get the dander up on us old free speech freaks. You got me. I wrote the following post before I realized you were just kidding. I'll just throw it in for laughs: - ----------- This discussion has been genteel and intelligent. It has been on topic. Related to printmaking. It even began because of the post about building woodcut images from digital images. You may choose not to accept the merits of the discussion. But, I submit, it is not your perogative to kill the discussion. Ray, I am not proseletizing about computers. You may choose to dismiss it as decorative arts. But you may not choose to dismiss us. You may choose your media and tools. But allow those of us that accept this tool to discuss it as it relates to baren and making prints and woodcuts. You need to learn to accept some change. Not about computers per se, but about new members to this group who may choose to discuss items you do not like. If this is Ray's site and I am stepping on toes here, I respectfully apologize to all and will bow out. But if this is an open discussion forum which I believe it is, then allow that -- OPEN DISCUSSION. Gee, March 1, 1999... can we handle more than one new concept every 51 days. Regards, Jake - -------- Again, Ray, my hat's off to you as an excellent moderator, you certainly have kept this discussion lively. Kudos! ------------------------------ From: Don Furst Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 14:48:01 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2596] Re: Woodcut press Jake wrote: >Has anyone used an etching press to pull a woodcut print? The issue I see >is creep and dealing with registration. Your experiences? Hello, Jake, and greetings from a Baren member further down the North Carolina coast in Wilmington. Funny you should ask about using an etching press, since that is precisely what I am doing with my exchange print (at least for the blocks with the largest expanses of ink). Stay tuned, and I should have plenty of technical tidbits later this month in answer to your question. - -Don ------------------------------ From: Jacob Roquet Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:50:12 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2597] Re: Woodcut press What felts work best? The pusher? ------------------------------ From: Ramsey Household Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 11:47:49 -0800 Subject: [Baren 2598] Re: Digital art II Dean Brink wrote: > And I suppose we should restrict discussion of what types of wood to use to two > postings per month; methods of drying, 3/mo; meaningless short messages 1/day. In the '60's and '70's, they had a saying, "different strokes for different folks". More power to you!! We have no idea where this will all end up and I, for one, am keeping an open mind. The computor is just another tool, after all, and it will be exciting to see what directions it will take art. It's just one more way to be creative. When real artists use it, there is no end to its possibilities. Carolyn ------------------------------ From: Jacob Roquet Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:16:09 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2599] Re: Woodcut press I noticed the UNC-W email address. Are you a student, faculty or other? ------------------------------ From: "Ray Esposito" Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:09:55 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2600] Re: Digital art redux Ray wrote: >I wrote the following post before I realized you were just kidding. I'll >just throw it in for laughs: Now here is sarcasm, if it is meant to be such, that is excellent - subtle but to the point. Jake, I am glad you are with us. I must comment on a few of your points. 1. I WAS serious. As I suggested to Dean, my point was NOT that I objected to the discussion but Baren is for woodblock and as much as I LOVE thise side tracks, sometimes they do on a little too long and they should be cut off, everyone get back to woodcut, then pick up the side tracks later. 2. I am not the moderator. This is David Bull's forum and he makes all fo the decsion. He just has a lot of patience. >This discussion has been genteel and intelligent. Agreed and I trust it will stay that way. >It has been on topic. Related to printmaking. It even began because of the >post about building woodcut images from digital images. Again, I agree. But you are missing my point. Let's get bakc to woodcut and come back to this later. This got started this time during a lull but there is a lot of discussion going on now about solvents, etc that are more on point and I feel we should get back there and leave this for just a little while. I AM NOT suggesting we forgot these topics. Besides, I love a good discussion that goes back and forth. >You may choose not to accept the merits of the discussion. But, I submit, >it is not your perogative to kill the discussion. Again, you are missing my point. The discussion has nothing to do with woodcut. It is a GREAT discussion but one we should hold up on for a little while. I do not think this is unreasonable nor am I exercising any perogative to kill it since I do not have the authority to do so and even if I did, I would not. >Ray, I am not proseletizing about computers. You may choose to dismiss it >as decorative arts. But you may not choose to dismiss us. You may choose >your media and tools. But allow those of us that accept this tool to >discuss it as it relates to baren and making prints and woodcuts. Apparently you took personal offense to what I wrote. If so, permit me to apologize. But those who have been here awhile know I will argue strongly for my point of view but accept all other points of view. NEVER have I suggested that digital arts are decorative arts. I challange anyone to find a opost that makes that statement. I have seen it written by others but never by me. Please lead me to the statement. As to your second sentence, I agree completely. But the discussion was not about woodcut. It began that way when Gary and I were discussion his use of computers. But it soon took on a life of its own. That was my point. >You need to learn to accept some change. Not about computers per se, but >about new members to this group who may choose to discuss items you do not >like. If you ahve been lurking a while you should know that accepting new members with new ideas has always been a halmark of Baren. As to choosing "items you do not like", I can't think of an item on Baren iover the past first year plus that I didn't like. Even when members disagree with me, I love it. >If this is Ray's site and I am stepping on toes here, I respectfully >apologize to all and will bow out. But if this is an open discussion forum >which I believe it is, then allow that -- OPEN DISCUSSION. This IS NOT my site. It is everyone's site and David is our leader. Again, I love the sarcasm. You are very good and a most welcome addition to Baren. Keep those posts coming. Cheers Ray ------------------------------ From: "Ray Esposito" Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:12:32 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2601] Re: Woodcut press >What felts work best? The pusher? Jake To tell you the truth, I can't see any real difference between the blankets. I am looking forward to hearing more from Don and after the exchange print I will have a few things to add. Cheers Ray ------------------------------ From: kim and paul Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 13:23:09 -0600 Subject: [Baren 2602] Brad wrote: > The stuff is more geared toward the offset printing industry but will work > for printmaking cleanup and such... they list it as a replacementfor > d'limonene, naptha, mineral spirits, and other petroleum based solvents. > They sent me an info packet with a card to request a free sample... it > works great. Thanks, Brad........... Roxanne, where can one buy this Wonder Wash? Kim ------------------------------ From: "Ray Esposito" Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:18:52 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2603] Fire In the Hole What a week. First the car transmission blows up. Now the refrig. I keep a small refrigerator in the studio with soft drinks for guests and when I am not working with chemicals or inks. I just walked upstairs and saw the refrig door open. Apparently I set the temerature too low and some of the cans close to the freezer blew and boy did they blow. One of them was on the far side of the studio. Three looked like someone had cut them with a razor blade. What a mess. Alas, the trials and tribulations of being an artist. Attacked by a diet Pepsi. I wonder if I can make that into a woodcut? :-)> Cheers Ray ----------------------------- From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 14:53:34 -0600 Subject: [Baren 2604] re: beware of the Flasher! Graham: I thought you new nickname had to do with your little escapades last year at the "nude" demonstrations and/or your new subject matter for your upcoming exhibition. Very dissapointed that it just has to do with your young age. Congratulations on turning the big 65 ! Andrew: Welcome to Baren. The only Forum in the web totally devoted to the discussion of digital art (for/against) and the pros/cons of editioning. Enjoy your stay. My uncle Fred was from Bristol,,,, or was that Brussels ? Jean: We are blessed to have you with us. Congratulations in your fight with cancer. I lost my baby brother 13 years ago to lymphoma. I know what a tremendous battle it is. Ray: You say we should have a moratorium on the subject of digital art. Perhaps we should just slow down, but only to give Dave a chance to catch up. Unless he's being staying up late at night....he'll have a week's worth of postings to go thru. I feel sorry for the members getting the archived postings. I would not want all the new contributing members to think that this forum is limited or controlled in anyway. If everybody exercises self-control this subject will slow down.....on it's own. Just look at Graham, he won't ever talk about it again ! Jake: I think cousin Ray is being serious when asking us to "change the subject". Everyone knows this is not Ray's web-site. This is GRAHAM & RAY's web-site. CONGRATULATIONS!! In your short time here at Baren you have accomplished a direct hit by getting Graham to promise to stop talking/bashing about the evils of computer art. ------------------------------ From: Jacob Roquet Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:08:37 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2605] Re: Fire In the Hole Ray wrote: > I wonder if I can make that into a woodcut? :-)> Maybe not a woodcut... but take the can, a little asphaltum and some ferric acid... add a little dietsodium phosphate ------------------------------ From: Mary Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 16:18:59 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2606] Re: Woodcut press Jacob Roquet wrote: > Does anyone know of a studio, university or individual using a Wessler > printing press. When I left Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa in 1983, there was a Wesel press of that description in the shop. Could that be what you are looking for? I have had no contact with Drake since I finished my MFA, so I have no idea if it is still in use. (Equipment that large rarely goes anywhere.) > Has anyone used an etching press to pull a woodcut print? The issue I see > is creep and dealing with registration. When I returned from Japan in 1978, I arrived in New Haven four months ahead of my knives, barens, etc. which were shipped. Fortunately, the arts center was well equipped with a Charles Brand etching press. I found 1/8" poplar plywood and went to work. I combined wood with etching plates, lithography and printed wood by itself on the etching press. I do not remember any major registration problems, but the key is to be flexible, since one registration system does not fit all. I used mylar, tape, pin, etching needles, sight and sometimes I would catch the paper under the roller and change plates. I would print with the woodblock face up or face down depending on what I wanted. According to my printing notes, I used any and all combinations of the etching blankets and a lovely piece of 1/2" foam. I used etching ink, litho ink or made my own ink. I tended to get the best results with highly saturated (pigment) inks that I mixed with tranparent base. One print used two zinc plates and two woodblocks. I could get maybe six colors on each etched plate with careful wiping and overprint the wood as many times as needed. I also got great embossing from the wood. I liked Arches and Johannet for printing wet and Stonhenge for printing dry. I have not located all of my notes so that is off the top of my head. Using the Brand press, a large diameter roller and the thin wood, I could layer the ink on Stonehenge so softly that you would swear it was gouache. Keep the ink layer thin, the press pressure light and yourself flexible. Also, the secret to any registration system is to get all of your blocks and or plates in sync before you start anything. Good luck. ------------------------------ From: Gregory Robison Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1999 12:30:04 +0300 Subject: [Baren 2607] solvents, presses Kampala, 8 January 1999 James M: Thanks for the input on experience with Really Works cleaner. I intend to run the "paint test" to see if the current product formulation is as muscular as the one you used. Thanks Brad, also, for the web address of the vendor of soy-based products. Roger: I had been told about, but never used, the solvent-transfer-from-photocopied-originals approach. Seemed messy to me, and placed (for me) undue emphasis on exact transfer of the original drawing. I sometimes draw directly on blocks or use charcoal or pastel on the back of a drawing, creating a kind of "instant carbon paper," then rubbing the image onto the plate, fixing it with normal spray fixative (regular old ethyl acetate), some brands of which anchor the transferred image (at least on linoleum) even after cleaning by mineral spirits, which is convenient when making successive state pulls as the carving progresses. Carolinians Jake and Don: I also use an etching press, especially to proof blocks. For that I use water-soluble ink, for convenience, and the press. If you can "read" your blocks sufficiently well without these intermediate pulls, this might not be so important for you. For the edition I sometimes then switch to burnishing (and more light-fast ink). Most recently I also took the rollers off my clam-shell platten press and hand-inked a block, locked in a chase, which I then printed in the press. (I.e., I used the platten for make-ready and the press for the impression, but did the inking by hand. The chase was lifted out, hand-inked, then replaced in the chase bed for each impression!) I did it this way because it's easier to vary the impression through differential make-ready than it is to vary the "kiss" of the rollers on a platten press. I also examined each impression as it came out, and sometimes did some hand-burnishing, too -- a very hybrid use of the equipment and techniques! The etching press I use (not the platten press) is a home-made one, however, and it doesn't have pressure guages or indicators on the screws to set the tension of the impression roller. Does anyone among the press users and recent press buyers know where I could get such fixtures, to replace the oculo-manual adjustment system with wing-nuts I now use? Gregory Robison ------------------------------ From: Jacob Roquet Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:41:25 -0500 Subject: [Baren 2608] For Mary Mary wrote: >there was a Wesel press of that description in the shop. ...(Equipment >that large rarely >goes anywhere.) Sounds right... I will have to go check the spelling at the top of my press. Your memory appears to be better than mine. Thanks. I'll check with their art dept. Great stuff on the use of the etching press for woodcut. The only question for now....> >According to my printing notes, I used any and all combinations of the >etching blankets and a lovely piece of 1/2" foam. Was the foam firm like styrofoam or a soft foam? Regards, Jake ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V6 #405 ***************************