[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest                Sunday, 19 July 1998        Volume 04 : Number 218

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From: steiner <steiner@mbox.kyoto-inet.or.jp>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 00:26:55 +0900
Subject: [Baren 1187] Barens on BAREN Forum 

from Richard Steiner, Kyoto

Gayle: yesterday in your message you mentioned that you
are about to purchase a baren.  This reminded me that there are several
barens out on the market, each one with its merits and demerits. For
your general information, let me list the ones I know of and use.  The
classic bamboo braided and wrapped baren is available from several
sources here in Japan, for quite hefty prices as Dave once wrote. 
Toshi Yoshida's workshop began offering many years ago a bamboo wrapped
baren with a formed plastic disk inside that acts like the braided
baren.  The disk is thin and has hundreds of tiny mountains all over
its surface.  They are quite inexpensive at \3,000, and last a long
time under normal use. (Rotating the black backing piece helps to
extend its life.)  But eventually, you will have to rewrap it.

Also from Toshi, (actually his printer and lifelong friend), came a
ball baring baren several years ago that is a real winner.  Called the
Yuki baren after the man who developed it, it is sorta heavy, so ideal
for children and less muscular adults.  Necessary for printing those
large, flat areas;  hopeless for lines and dots and lettering.  It does
take some time to get used to, but is worth it.  It costs from 
\24,000 to \30,000.  A while back Kurosaki put on the market his Disk
Baren, a preformed, light weight baren with a disk like Toshi's, but
exposed!  No bamboo leaf.  Kurosaki uses his baren exclusively for all
his printing.  It is readily available, costs only \2500. The plastic
disks are easily replaceable (\500).  Last year, Seiko Kawachi came out
with his variation on the Yuki baren, a black preformed baren with more
and tinier ball barings than the Yuki baren.  It is lighter, and
noisier in that there is only one layer of balls, whereas the Yuki
baren has two, one layer above the other, exposed one, to lessen the
rolling noise. (Initially, there was a single layer Yuki baren, but it
was so noisy, you couldn't hear yourself talk.  It disappeared.)  The
Kawachi baren costs \14,000.  Add to these the true childrens' barens
which are totally useless but very cheap, and you can see that we have
quite a range of barens to chose from. I have all the above barens in
my studio, and the advanced students also have several.  Here in Kyoto,
one can custom order a baren from Mr Sato, a professional printer. 
Inside there is a coil of hard plastic braiding which works as well as
the real bamboo braining.  Costs about \15,000.  I know of but haven't
used a home made baren that has a plastic netting where the barings or
bamboo leaf would be.  It works just fine but is not in production. 
Some of the above barens are available from "Robert Mclain", or from
KIWA, the Kyoto International Woodprint Asso.

Roger:  if I got too excited concerning your use of
acrylics, and waxed rather strongly with my language, do not take it
personally.  I have been advised to be more "cool" and keep smiling
:>). From now on, I'll try to write more like a dispassionate
observer.

from Richard Steiner, Kyoto

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 09:43:29 -0700
Subject: [Baren 1188] Re: "Computer Art" 

OK you guys. That tore it......

I have been a lurker but the posting about doing fine art on the computer
borders on s...  well I won't say it so as not to insult.

Better that I instruct.

Let me put this in a nut shell.

THERE IS NOT SUBSTITUTION FOR THE ABILITY TO DRAW.

You cannot learn to draw on a computer.
To draw one has to plan and think out the problems.
With a computer you can just do and change, do and change, do and change,
do and change, and eventually you PROBLABLY get it right.
When you develop your drawing skills a great deal of thinking and analyzing
is required.  Then you have to develop the hand-eye co-ordination. That can 
take you years.

For me there is no fast track to creating fine art images.

When I see a phrase like "as it can save a lot of time".
then I wonder if in this day of instant gratification we can be influenced
in the wrong way.

Fine art is not whacking if off the fastest way......leave that for the
commercial art folks where time is money.

Fine are takes time to evolve and the development of the image that must
have emotion and the touch of the artist soul must be felt with the
sensation and  smell of the medium on the paper and through the fingers to
the heart and brain.

Any other way is the short track.

For those that choose that way be my guest.
This was written not for you but to guide the young and new want-a-be
artist to consider why and what they are creating.

Graham

ps  If you need on more piece of convincing......try this....

Computer art is like a type written letter
Fine art is like a hand written letter

pps
If you guys posted the stuff about computer art to get me out of the
woodwork then you have achieved your objective

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From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 19:10:18 -0400
Subject: [Baren 1189] Re: "Computer Art" 

Graham,

    Indeed I thought you had trekked off into the woods to do some
sketching or something and thought  you might have gotten lost, as we
hadn't heard from you lately.   I admit that the thought crossed my mind as
I e-mailed it off to Baren and a certain faint smile crossed my lips as I
punched "send" that you might in fact be watching from the shadows waiting
to pounce.

   Let me take up my sword (not the short one) and defend myself.

   That there is _no_ substitute for drawing is quite right.  I _love_ to
draw and would never sacrifice that aspect of art.  It is the most
enjoyable part for me, though not necessarily the easiest.   Besides there
is no adequate means that I have discovered whereby you can actually draw
smooth lines on the computer.  My father once said that drawing with a
mouse is about as delicate as drawing with a brick!  He was right.

   I can only surmise that someone so adamantly against doing some of one's
work on a computer, is an old stick in the mud, tied to established
methods, and who has never seen an art program or seen what advantages it
has to offer.  Do you burn the wood to charcoal and process a stick of it
if you wish to go out and do a charcoal sketch?   Do you personally mine
and ground your own pigments from the earth's minerals and biological
sources for your woodblock printing?  Have you never used a pencil, or a
manufactured pen, or commercial brush, or a tube of paint, or paint on a
canvas that you didn't grow the flax for and weave yourself?  In short, you
have.  I know you have.  Do you make your own woodblock printing paper from
scratch?  I think not.   You have taken shortcuts in your art.

   I suppose that each time a new thing or process comes along, it faces
just such a strong prejudice. 

   It is one thing to be able to master one's compositional skills, and
another to master the technical skills necessary to carry out your art. 
"Facility aids expression".  Whether you use brushes, pens, pastels, oils,
acrylics, woodblocks to express your art, they all have technical
challenges which must be mastered.  A computer is no different.  You
perhaps are thinking that when I sit down at my computer, I type in a rough
description of the picture I want to produce, hit a key, and voila! my
composition has arrived.  No art training necessary, anyone can do it! 
Nothing could be further from the truth.

   When I say it can help save time, I speak as going down to the artstore
helps each artist save time.  My God, who would have the time to make all
of one's materials from scratch?  Dave enumerates and writes essays on the
many expert hands that go into making the various materials you carvers and
printers use.    You don't balk at saving time by getting _those_ materials
ready-made.  They help you save an enormous amount of time and allow you to
concentrate on _doing_ your work.   No less here.
You must still create  exactly what goes where, and manipulate the various
features the software program offers to create your composition.  You pick
your tools off the table, some of my tools sit on the table and are plugged
in.   

    It is quite a sophisticated tool, and as any tool, is only as good as
its user.  So if my art work is substandard, it is not because I use a
computer, but simply because I haven't mastered the media yet.

   O.K. Graham.  My swordpoint is resting on the floor.  Your turn to swish
the air!

   
Gary

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From: Phil Bivins <pbivins@mindspring.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:08:18 -0400
Subject: [Baren 1190] Re: Barens on BAREN Forum 

Gayle, I must have missed your message about your purchase of a baren. My
first two came from McClains. They are the traditional bamboo wrapped
ones with a synthetic cord. The back is a lacquered piece of light weight
wood. The price is around $186 for the 12cm size. They do have a 10cm
size but I have found that one to be too small, at least for my hand.
They both have a great deal of power. My latest prize is one that I
purchased from Gosho san. Dave has a story about him along with pictures.
It's an investment, but it's also a piece of history from a master.
Phil

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From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 21:35:57 -0400
Subject: [Baren 1191] Re: Barens on BAREN Forum 

Phil,

Whatever you sent did not come through.  It said no viewer was available
for the second page.  There was no message on the first, only your heading.

Gary

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Subject: [Baren 1192]   Repeated message

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:18:12 +0900
Subject: [Baren 1193] Admin message 

Administration message:

This seems to come up every time we get a burst of new members ...  May
I remind everybody please, that because of the different way that mail
programs handle 'special' email, it is better that you avoid using such
things as 'styled' text and HTML tags in your email.  Although some mail
programs can easily read these tags and display the text in a styled
way, many can not - and the digest version _never_ can.

And when such styled text is then quoted, the problem is passed on and
on ...

As the 'net evolves, I suppose a standard on this will gradually take
shape, but at the moment, sticking to plain text will allow your
messages to reach everybody with the least problem.

Thanx

Dave

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From: Hideshi Yoshida <dodoland@silver.plala.or.jp>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 11:49:45 +0900
Subject: [Baren 1194] Gallery on Baren 

Dear David ,

I checked the sample page of "Gallery".
It looks good and it's a great idea.
Will you put photographs of each person's face on "question mark"?
Won't every pieces' title be put on it?

Hideshi

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End of Baren Digest V4 #218
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