[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest               Thursday, 18 June 1998       Volume 03 : Number 186

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 07:25:24 -0700
Subject: [Baren 943] New image 

Posted a new image,

Go looky lou.......   http://www.islandnet.com/~gscholes/

Away for a few days.  Marnie and I are putting the salesmen (or is that
salespeople) hat on and touring the Island and Sunshine coasts.
Wonderful west coast scenery and vistas that blows the mind.

Let me know if any of you are going to make use of the pigments I recommend.

Graham

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From: Sheryl Coppenger <sheryl@seas.gwu.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 11:40:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Baren 944] Papers and inks 

> Also, I'm told that Rives is the favored "occidental" paper.  I like Arches
> and I know some list members use it.  Any consensus on what people think of
> Rives or Arches?
 
Rives BFK is my "workhorse" print paper.  That's because I got started in
Lithography and the litho professor prefers that paper.  I think this is
140lb or something like that.  I tend to use BFK for many of my block prints
just because I always have it around.  I've played with Somerset as well,
some people use it because it's cheaper.  I don't find the price differential
worth it and like BFK better for white, but Somerset does have some tinted
papers which are a little more subtle than the BFK tones.  Also, the toned
BFK papers are very soft and Somerset's toned papers seem to be a little
more sturdy.  I don't buy the thin BFK or arches, I usually switch to "rice"
paper when I want something thinner.  When I'm using a press instead of hand
printing, I also like to use smooth Arches watercolor paper for block printing. 

The "novelty" papers are fun too.  I did some typesetting on paper with
coconut husks ground up in it.  When I'm hand-printing, though, I like
to use thinner "rice" paper so I can tell from the back how well the image
has been transferred.  I also use those papers for trace monotypes for
the same reason.  I'm trying to think of the kind -- unryu?  It has a
lot of fibers in it.  I also use a similar paper in color with multicolor
fibers for hand printing.  These are one-color prints, it probably would
be a little more difficult to use them for multi-colors.  One thing
that has been fun about block printing -- after we used so many different
papers for chine colle' and block printing I went back to litho and was
doing lithographs on "rice" paper and all sorts of things and it worked
out better than I would have expected.

I've done much more linoleum printing than woodblock at this point and
we were taught with oil-based inks.  We didn't use speedball inks, though,
we use Perfection Palette inks from Graphic Chemical.  The same ink is
used for block and intaglio printing.  I also printed some silk with 
that ink and it did a beautiful job.  They recommend the ink for fabric
printing, it's supposed to be permanent.  Speaking of Graphic Chemical, 
when I ordered the copper plates for the mezzotint workshop I'm attending 
next month I ordered a block of maple from them as well so I can try wood 
engraving.  Unfortunately it's backordered. :-(

So you see, you're not the only one printing with oil-based inks.  I have
done some transparent work by using tint base extender and Miracle Gel.  I
do want to try printing the Japanese way.  Utrecht in DC has a bookbinding
section now and I bought a jar of rice paste mix there the other day.
Before I got on this list, I think most of the sources I'd seen did 
recommend water color in tubes as pigment rather than dry pigments or
pigments under water that most people on the list seem to use.  Since I
do egg tempera I have pigments, probably will try it both ways.

Sheryl Coppenger    

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From: jimandkatemundie@juno.com (James G Mundie)
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:42:20 -0400
Subject: [Baren 945] Stats and back issues of _Hyaku-nin Isshu_ 

Dave, 
	I just took a look at the statistics page (having remembered my
earlier question to you about just how many people were poking around
woodblock.com on a given day).  I was quite amazed by what I found in the
stats for May of this year:  12,935 requests!  3,845 on 3 May alone!  
	Wow.  I had no idea so many people on the net were interested in
woodblock printing.  Am I reading the results correctly in that
woodblock.com averages 300 hits a day?  

	I've been enjoying reading the back issues of _Hyaku-nin Isshu_,
particularly your biographical accounts in "Halifax to Hamura".  I hope
you'll soon be able to get the 1995 issues up for perusal.  But, hey... I
know you're a busy man.  :-)

Sla/inte,
James Mundie, Philadelphia USA 

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From: Ray Esposito <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 12:54:00 -0400
Subject: [Baren 946] Re: New image 

Graham wrote:
>Posted a new image,

Great print.  So that's why you were holed up for a couple of weeks.  Well
worth it.  Only one question.  What are thunderheads doing in the print?
You ruined my whole image of paradise.  :>)

I will continue to make etching inks from Graphic Chemical as the base of
what I do but I want to learn to use pigments.  So yes, I will be ordering,
most like duplicating your palette.  You may be getting an SOS or two once
I get started.

Cheers

P.S.  Wood arrived okay.  My mailman's back can attest to it.  Thanks.

Ray Esposito

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From: Ray Esposito <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 15:16:35 -0400
Subject: [Baren 947] Re: New image 

Graham wrote:
>Away for a few days.  Marnie and I are putting the salesmen (or is that
>salespeople) hat on and touring the Island and Sunshine coasts.
>Wonderful west coast scenery and vistas that blows the mind.

Have a great time.  I can see you really need the rest - no one-liners at
the end of the message.  How can I criticize the jokes if you refuse to
tell them?

Cheers

Ray Esposito

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From: Jean Eger <jeaneger@LanMinds.Com>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 13:37:29 -0700
Subject: [Baren 948] Re: inks 

Roger,
According to the method taught by Katherine McKay in the San Francisco Bay Area,  I 
use watercolors from the tube, mixed with a little water and rice paste.  This is 
terribly expensive but it works well (on sized paper).  McKay recommends using BFK 
Rives paper and printing the block several times to get a dark color.  I've also tried 
mixing dry pigment with various media, such as gum arabic, then with rice paste, with 
varied results.
  
Roger, I've been making woodcuts with oil based inks for many years, but I am still a 
beginner when it comes to Japanese water-based techniques. Much of the success 
seems to depend on the way the ink is layed on the block and the brushes that are 
used.  The brushes are similar to stencil brushes, but not exactly the same. Dave could 
probably tell us more about this.

This compendium by Dave is very helpful and a great learning experience. It was very 
interesting to learn about Graham's method of lightly shellacking, then sandpapering 
the surface.  My shellacked blocks always repelled water based inks, so now I know 
that I should sand them a little bit.

Your prints are very attractive.  I hope you will continue working in this medium. Also, 
your drawings are very sensitive.

Sincerely,
Jean Eger

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 07:15:19 +0900
Subject: [Baren 949] Re: Mold Spots 

Note: Although the header says that this message is from Dave, it is
actually being forwarded from Jack Reisland, [Baren] 'lurker'.

- --- begin forwarded message ---

A few days ago Ray Esposito had a question about mold spots on his
prints. These spots are a common problem on old paper objects, it is a
form of mildew and are generally referred to as "foxing". It usually
starts by attacking the sizing of the paper, which then renders that
spot of the paper highly absorbent. This allows the organism to then
attack the cellulose of the paper itself.  Although household bleach
will, as suggested, remove these spots, it is very hard on the paper,
and will itself continue to cause cellulose damage if it is not
completely rinsed out. There is also a possibility that it may cause
damage to pigments on other prints it may be stacked with. A better
alternative is Chloramine-T, a bleaching agent that is routinely used in
the paper conservation field. It has the unique property that, when
applied to a print, its bleaching properties are soon lost, and no
corrosive byproducts are left in the paper. This way rinsing can be
reduced to a minimum. It is available in powder form (to be mixed with
distilled water) from Conservation Materials, P.O. Box 2884, Sparks,
Nevada  89431, 1-702-331-0582. They also carry dry pigments, and some
Japanese brushes and papers, although I'm not sure how their prices
compare.
     If foxing is a continuing problem, you might look into how the
paper you are using has been sized, and if you are sizing your own
paper, you have the option of including a mild fungicide.
   It's been a pleasure lurking and learning, Jack Reisland

- --- end forwarded message ---

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 1998 07:59:11 +0900
Subject: [Baren 950] Re: Stats, etc. 

Jim wrote:
>I just took a look at the statistics page ... etc.

>Am I reading the results correctly in that
>woodblock.com averages 300 hits a day?  

The numbers that you see there are 'requests for pages', not 'hits'
(meaning visits from people)

A typical visit will involve requests for a number of pages: first the
main entry page, then the encyclopedia outline, then the update page,
and _then_ the entry the person wishes to see.  That's four page
requests already ... for only one simple visit.

So the numbers you see on that statistics page don't reflect the actual
number of visitors.  But the information about exactly which pages
they look at is very interesting and useful for me ...

html://www.woodblock.com/stats/

***

In the ink discussion, Jean wrote:
>Much of the success seems to depend on the way the ink 
>is layed on the block and the brushes that are used.  The 
>brushes are similar to stencil brushes, but not exactly the same. 

Speaking for the traditional Japanese view (I don't know any other), the
brushes must must _must_ be very firm, not soft and floppy at all. The
pigment cannot be 'painted' onto the block, but must be 'brushed into'
the wood.  

A good analogy that might make the point clearer is with using a brayer
and rolling out the ink.  When the ink is rolled out on the slab, one
must keep rolling until the film is very thin - we are usually told it
should look like 'satin'.  If too much ink is on the slab, this
transfers unevenly to the block.

In brushing - it's the same.  'Painting' the pigment on with a soft
brush always leaves too much pigment 'standing' on the surface of the
wood.  'Brushing' it on with a stiff brush leaves only that satiny film.

***

Re: pigments

I guess an Encyclopedia entry on pigment is way overdue, isn't it.  I'll
start to put one together, maybe clipping some stuff from your postings,
but it's going to be complicated.  What should it include?

: traditional Japanese powder pigments (ganryo)
: Western powder pigments
: tube watercolours
: water dispersion pigments
: oil-base inks

Am I overlooking anything?

***

Graham wrote:
> Posted a new image ...

Very nice, Graham .... _again_ ...

Is that lighthouse (lightpole?) new?  I've been through Active Pass a
million times, but don't remember seeing that there ...

How many have you got left to do in your series?

Dave B.

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From: Ray Esposito <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:07:52 -0400
Subject: [Baren 951] Re: Stats, etc. 

Dave wrote:
>I guess an Encyclopedia entry on pigment is way overdue, isn't it.  I'll
>start to put one together, maybe clipping some stuff from your postings,
>but it's going to be complicated.  What should it include?
>
>: traditional Japanese powder pigments (ganryo)
>: Western powder pigments
>: tube watercolours
>: water dispersion pigments
>: oil-base inks
>
All of the above

Ray Esposito

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From: Ray Esposito <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 21:26:23 -0400
Subject: [Baren 952] Re: Mold Spots 

Jack wrote:
>     If foxing is a continuing problem, you might look into how the
>paper you are using has been sized, and if you are sizing your own
>paper, you have the option of including a mild fungicide.

Thank you for the info.  I know about foxing as a long time collector.
This is not that fancy a problem.  What happened was I soaked a bunch of
paper but printed all but two sheets.  I then got onto some other
activities, keeping the paper tightly wrapped in plastic.  You know what
happens....a week later I printed the two sheets without noticing the new
small spots.  Once I added the color, the spots just seemed to pop out and
boy do you notice them now.  

So what I am looking at is two week old mold.  My original question, which
I may not have made clear, was, with mold so new, is there an easy way to
eliminate it before it gets really set?  If yes, I can save the print.  If
not, it goes onto my print garbage pile.  And boy, is it some pile!!!  (I
am personally responsible for Arches profit margin this year.)  :>)

Cheers

Ray Esposito

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End of Baren Digest V3 #186
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