[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest                Friday, 15 May 1998        Volume 03 : Number 156

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From: Blueman <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:48:58 -0400
Subject: [Baren 764] Re: Baren Digest V3 #155 

Julio wrote:
> What's important is technique. 
> Technique is obtained by doing...not by reading, not by waiting for supplies, 

okay, folks, the paper is soaking.  Today is art day.  The tables are
set up on the back porch and after this I am taking what materials I
have to work with and trying once again.  Matt, the jig is set up.  Stay
tuned.

Gayle Wohlken

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 07:47:08 -0700
Subject: [Baren 765] Re: You decide! 

From Gary
>I can't speak for Graham, but the website has not proven to be a
>marketplace.   Perhaps my presentation is wrong, or the fact I'm not set up
>for credit cards deters possible buyers.

The situation is the same here as far a sales on the net.  No go.
Other stuff seems to sell but not art.  I haven't talked to anyone who has
any success with the Web sale thing.

I find people very wary about buying art. I'm talking John Q Public now.  I
may have a hang up about this, but I am convinced that for 10 years the
reproduction business promised exciting investment potential. When it
crashed it has turned people away from art that even suggests value.  They
won't trust anyone now.  The small craft and poster images is the material
that is keeping a frame gallery in Sidney alive...just barely.  Crafts are
selling well.
I have friends who are doing wonderful work but not making sales. This is
not just here in Victoria, but Vancouver and Toronto, Although Montreal is
doing better.

So we have our work cut out for us and must work hard at building the
confidence of the buyer.  If you run across a G.D. publisher or artist
promoting non fine art as ...well you know what to do...Oh get off this
Scholes your getting to be a bore.....!

Pricing.
This day and age you look at your compeditor and price accordingly.
Never---never jack your prices up after one or two good shows.  This is
certain death.  If you look at time spent, material costs and cost of tied
up capital, then you may find out you are really working for.!!

When and if the market strengthens, then you can play silly bugger with
your prices.  Of coarse dying is the answer to pricing.....and taxes.

April wrote,
Gary and Graham seem to have given this problem some thought...

Not really.  It comes with experience of 20 + years and present day factors.
During normal times the prices would easily be 50% higher.

During dead times 500% higher. (<: (<: (<:

Graham

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:19:54 -0700
Subject: [Baren 766] Basswood. 

I was looking in my trash and the 'to send file' looking for an e-mail that
I thought I had written.  It seems I haven't as I can find no trace of it.

Tell me I'm not loosing it.

Did I send you pricing for the basswood.??

Did a also write to say I have sent the sample of paper.???

Graham

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From: Ray Esposito <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:32:58 -0400
Subject: [Baren 767] Re: You decide! 

Graham wrote:
>The situation is the same here as far a sales on the net.  No go.
>Other stuff seems to sell but not art.  I haven't talked to anyone who has
>any success with the Web sale thing.

Permit me to put my four cents into this discussion.  Since I have not sold
any of my art yet, I will speak as a collector.  

Art is such a personal thing that more than any other kind of purchase, you
need to be "involved" with it.  I have never bought a piece of art, be it
Gaugain, Miro, Dali, Audubon among the bigger names in my collection to the
many little known artists, particularly the artists who were primarily
printmakers, as an investment.  Each and every piece of art I have ever
bought (98% are prints), I did so because they hit me in some way.  I had
an immediate, personal relationship with them.

I find that on the internet, I do not have that same connection.  Oh, sure,
I see a lot of art I like to some extent, especially the art of many Baren
members, but something keeps me from making a purchase.  

I do not know what the fear is since buying on the internet is really no
different than buying from a gallery.  You can always talk to the artist or
gallery director since all include e-mail, snail mail and telephone
numbers.  Perhaps it is the "newness" of the internet and the horror
stories about rip-offs.  But haven't there been rip-offs by gallery owners?  

Perhaps the problem is we collectors are so use to visiting the gallery or
artist, holding the painting or print in our hands and making a
"connection" with it that that is the difference.  We need to "feel" the art.

As a collector, I like to hold the piece, walk away, come back, hold it
again a few days later (and yes, it could be gone) and ask myself, will I
enjoy living with that piece.  When I walk into my home and see it on the
wall, will I stop to enjoy it again and again and again?  If the answer is
yes, price is of little concern.

I hope all of this makes some sense.  When I move to Baltimore next March I
plan to have a studio and gallery in my home.  The gallery will give people
a chance to see and hold my art and the art of a few invited artists.  (It
will also be a place to begin selling off my collection.  Better to a good
home than to Uncle Sam for taxes.)  I also plan on having a website but as
an information site only.  I do not expect to sell art on it so I am not
going into it with high sales hopes only to have them dashed.

Perhaps I am too much of a "touchy, feely" kind of person and others do not
get as involved with their collections as I do but I kind of doubt it.  All
true collectors I know love their collections and have a connection with them.

For what it is worth

Cheers

Ray Esposito

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 08:27:29 -0700
Subject: [Baren 768] Pigments 

I haven't heard if anybody out there is interested in the pigments I use.
These are without doubt the finest colourant and work like a whistle for
our sport.

I have talked to the guy who supplies them and he is willing to ship direct.

Let me know if you want information about the stuff.

Also I have talked to the supplier of my basswood  and he is willing to set
up a shipping service.

Both of these sources have e-mail facilities.

Let me know.

You guys in the US sure would get a bargin at the present rate of 30% less
on the Canadian Buck.

Graham

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From: Ray Esposito <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:32:59 -0400
Subject: [Baren 769] Re: Pigments 

Graham wrote:
>I haven't heard if anybody out there is interested in the pigments I use.
>These are without doubt the finest colourant and work like a whistle for
>our sport.

Absolutely! Yes!  You Bet!  Right away!  Wow!!!!!!

Cheers

Ray Esposito

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From: jimandkatemundie@juno.com (James G Mundie)
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:20:37 -0400
Subject: [Baren 770] tool acquisition 

Julio wrote:
>Good composition and good technique will shine through even when using
>cheaper tools...

	True.  The issue is skill, not the tools one uses.  Of course, a
better tool is more efficient and feels better in the hand... but if you
persevere with what you have readily at hand, think how much more
efficient you will be with it when you can finally afford that
top-of-the-line tool!  
	I for one, have been using a crappy Speedball brayer for my
woodcuts (yes its called a _brayer_, not a "roller") until I can afford
the fabulous gelatin models I cut my teeth on at the Academy.  I almost
had one a couple of years ago, but when I could finally afford to get the
brayer of my dreams, the bastards doubled the price across the industry!
	With many things, the anticipation and the wanting is better than
the getting.  That doesn't hold true here.  I can only imagine that
having a really good baren will be better than the waiting for it... but
how sweet that day will be when you can drop nine hundred well-spent
dollars and cuddle and caress that "true" baren.  The day will come. 
Bide your time.  Find adequate substitutes for now and don't hold back in
the honing of your skills.

***
Gayle wrote about using vegetable oil for cleaning up ink.  This was
something the printshop in which I was trained phased in to make the shop
more environmentally friendly.  Before that, we splashed Xylene,
Lithotine and --yoiks!-- lacquer thinner around like they were going out
of style). Oil works great, as far as cutting down the actual amount of
solvents one has to use.  At first, I disliked it only because it seemed
to take four times as long to clean.  The price one pays to avoid toxic
poisoning, I suppose.  One other problem with vegetable oils is that they
tend to go rancid after a time.  Baby oil (as Ray suggested) or any
mineral oil is the best route to avoid that problem.  A quick once over
with alcohol will eliminate the oil residue from your mixing palette and
printing surfaces.
	Good ol' soap seems to be the best way to get the ink residue out
of brushes, Ray.  I actually use a liquid laundry detergent called
Shaklee Liquid-L and another Shaklee product called Basic-H.

Mise le meas,
James Mundie, Philadelphia PA

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From: julio.rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:44:52 -0600
Subject: [Baren 771] re;pigments 

Graham; I am interested. What exactly is it that you are using ? What type and 
brand ? When you use the word colourant...is it the same as typical water 
colors ? Please more technical info. Thanks. 

JULIO 

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From: Phil Bivins <pbivins@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:58:29 -0400
Subject: [Baren 772] Re: Pigments 

Graham, I sure would like information concerning pigments and basswood
suppliers. Presently I am using dry pigment from Daniel Smith and Shina
from McClains. Always on the market to try something new. Thanks,

 Phil

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From: Phil Bivins <pbivins@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:13:05 -0400
Subject: [Baren 773] Re: tool acquisition 

I'll throw my opinion in the ring concerning the tool thing. This reminds
me of when I started to learn Chinese Brush Painting. For some reason I
thought if I could only find that Magic Brush somehow THAT would make me a
better artist! I suppose for me it has to do with maturity. Thinking that I
can get away with something instead of doing the actual work and practice
that is required. I still find myself trying to find the easy way, if I
just had the right whatever, things would be easier. I'm learning the Easy
Way IS doing the work and practice that is required. But good tools do make
a difference. If they didn't they would be a hell of alot less expensive!
Hey, I'm still learning and I still get it in my mind that if I just had
the right knife, the perfect piece of wood, the purest sheet of handmade
paper, I could make the perfect print. Well, now you know why I am a
Psychiatric Nurse! Talking about spilling one's guts. Enough said.
Donations are welcome. Later,

 Phil

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From: Blueman <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 22:32:05 -0400
Subject: [Baren 774] Re: Baren Digest V3 #155 

It is now 10:30 p.m.  This morning early I wrote:

> the paper is soaking.  Today is art day.  The tables are
> set up on the back  porch and after this I am taking what materials I
> have to work with and trying once again.  Stay
> tuned.

Back to the drawing board.  : )  : )

Gayle

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 20:58:56 -0700
Subject: [Baren 775] Re: pigments

>Please more technical info. Thanks. JULIO

The colour that this person uses is imported from the States.  I don't know
who or where as they won't divulge that information. I suppose if I knew
that I could order it direct.  But then how would I ever use 10 gallons
pails of any one colour.  I suppose I could load 2oz jars and .....oh
forget it, it ain't gonna happen.
So you see it is not a brand name. I am dealing with a person that can
supply the raw or basic pigment....like one step away from the manufacture.
There is no fillers and you must ad rice paste or gum arabic when using it.

From these colourants they makes acrylic pigments and sells it here there
and around the Island. Mostly to the school board in 8oz jars.  I doubt
that we would want 8 oz so have asked him to price 2oz (that is the size I
get) which will last you a loonng tiimme. I bought some of the colours 5
years ago and still have a little left in the jar. It is very strong pure
material.

That is all I can tell you.  I realize you will have to trust me.  But then
why should you. Maybe because I am not getting anything out of this.  I
endorse it for free.
Well that's not totally true.  Mike Turner...that his name.... wants to
take me out for a coffee and a donut.

If you want more than this well it ain't going to happen.

Graham

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 21:28:30 -0700
Subject: [Baren 776] Re: You decide! 

Ray wrote,
>Art is such a personal thing that more than any other kind of purchase, you
>need to be "involved" with it.  etc ...

I think you nailed it here.  Should have thought it through myself.

Graham

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From: Jean Eger <jeaneger@LanMinds.Com>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 22:24:52 -0700
Subject: [Baren 777] Re: Outdoor Art Sales 

Hello,
Guess what, I sold one etching-aquatint today for $25 plus tax!  It's a one-plate
view of the San Francisco Bay, part of a triptych.  I also have a couple of
woodcuts and a silkscreen on display.  I made a booth from two pegboards, hinged
together.  I cut a handhold near the hinges, in the middle.  The prints are in
shrink wrap on foamcore (use a barely warm iron over paper on the shrink wrap).
They are fastened to the pegboard with nuts and bolts, right through the foamcore.
If it's not windy, I put up an umbrella, so it is prettier.  Today was overcast,
but no rain.  Also a plastic chair, a book and a receipt book and water.  A hat.

Today I saw some more old friends and acquaintances, and read "Fifty Years of
California Prints; An exhibition of forty printmakers working in California between
1900 - 1950."  by Gala Chamberlain.  This was given out at a print fair by The
Annex Galleries, Santa Rosa.  It's a really beautiful  little black and white
catalog.  Also a few more pages of Lumsden.  I guess I should print out some of
Dave's stuff and read that.

Sincerely,
Jean Eger

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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 21:40:55 +0900
Subject: [Baren 778] An interesting offer ... 

I've got a good one for you tonight ...  I mentioned a while back that I had been 
talking with Mr. Choushi Horimoto, who is working here in Tokyo as a 
professional carver ...

No, No ... his web site isn't ready yet.  That's not what I wanted to
mention.   He sent me a very interesting email ...  

> Do you think there might be some people in your [Baren] group who 
> would like to have me carve a block for them?  Perhaps something 
> about the size of a double postcard ...  not with a lot of super-fine 
> lines ... but just a normal type of block."

He's obviously interested in doing something different from the ukiyo-e
reproductions that are his usual fare.  This is a great chance ... as
these guys are usually very expensive.  To have somebody offer to do
this 'just for fun' is unusual to say the least.  Once he had finished
the key block, I could do some colour blocks for it (if necessary), then
we could pull some proofs ...   I would then send the set of blocks over
to the designer to do whatever with ...

Anybody interested?

Here's how we'll work it ...  I'm off for a couple of weeks starting
Sunday, so anybody who wants to be considered for this, get your
pens/pencils/brushes out and draw something - sticking within a size of
200mm x 150mm.  When he said 'not super-fine lines' he just meant not
some delicate hair tracery that would give him a headache.  Normal thin
lines would be no problem.  Take a look at some typical Japanese prints
for a guide.  (If you have trouble drawing like that, work on a larger
scale, and then reduce it on a copy machine ...)   Don't even think
about 'Japanese' themes.  Horimoto san wants to do something different
and interesting ...

When you've drawn it (on any paper you wish; we will transfer it to mino
for carving), mail it over to me, to arrive by the end of this month. 
When I get back on the 30th, I'll pass him all the 'entries' and he will
choose the one he personally finds most interesting.  (It's possible
that he may later move on to do some more of them, but there are _no_
promises on that score.  At the moment, _one_ will be chosen ...)

OK?   Over to you!

Dave B.

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End of Baren Digest V3 #156
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