[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Friday, 8 May 1998 Volume 03 : Number 149 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Blueman Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 10:57:44 -0400 Subject: [Baren 713] Re: Baren Digest V3 #148 Dave wrote: > As an indication of just what people are most interested in reading > about, here are the ten most accessed pages in our Encyclopedia. Now Dave, can you tell by the log where the people are from who are looking. I mean can you tell if its us looking at ourselves? (blush). Does it say, for instance, "Blueman is looking at Gayle Wohlken, er...15 times a day? : ) Gayle Wohlken (aka Blueman) ------------------------------ From: Dan Wasserman Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 09:14:10 -0700 Subject: [Baren 714] Regarding Copyright Dave: Don't worry about copyright on adding texts to the site. Non-for profit reproduction for the purpose of education or critism are permited under *fair use* provisions of copyright law. You should just indicate the source of your material, its authorship, and the identity of the presumed copyright owner of the material and indicate that it not be reproduced from your source exept in the case of personal use for study purposes. My litmus test for violation of copyright are any of the following conditions being met: 1. Insufficient or missleading notice pertaining to actual authorship. 2. A commercial use constituting *substitution of product* resulting in demonstrable loss of income to copyright holder(s). 3. A *confusion of product* resulting in demonstrable loss of income, finacial damages, or damage to reputation of author(s) and or copyright holder(s). 4. A reproduction in modified form that distorts or undermines original intention or meaning except in case of criticism or satire without proper notice of such modification. 5. A for profit use without the primary purpose being education, criticism, or satire. I can't image any of your website meeting any of these conditions. I feel that we who are engaged in non-profit education efforts should be agressive in claiming explicetly our privelege to *fair use* of copyrighted materials. This is a contested issue but I feel we should take a stand on principal. ~dan ------------------------------ From: Ray Esposito Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 12:07:03 -0400 Subject: [Baren 715] Re: Baren Digest V3 #148 Gayle wrote: >Now Dave, can you tell by the log where the people are from who >are looking. I mean can you tell if its us looking at ourselves? Shhhhhh. How do you think I got to 2nd place? Keep it quiet!!!! :>') Cheers Ray Esposito ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 08:32:29 +0900 Subject: [Baren 716] Re: Copyright Dan wrote: > Don't worry about copyright on adding texts to the site. .... > My litmus test for violation of copyright are any of the following > conditions being met: > 2. A commercial use constituting *substitution of product* resulting in > demonstrable loss of income to copyright holder(s). Dan, this #2 is the one that will kill me if I start to upload the full texts of any books that are still under copyright protection. I've been doing quite a bit of reading up on this, and all those 'fair use' and 'educational' clauses are very well, but as far as I can understand, these are taken to mean that only a _portion_ of the work has been used, not the entire thing. If a book is still protected by copyright, and I make the _whole thing_ available for anybody to read, that constitutes an 'demonstrable loss of income', and whether this is for education or not, will make no difference, I will be in trouble. So for now, I'll stick to the old stuff. But don't worry, there is a _lot_ of it here on my shelf waiting ... *** Gayle wrote: > Now Dave, can you tell by the log where the people are from who > are looking. I mean can you tell if its us looking at ourselves? No. At least not usually. The log entries look like this: 194.109.61.72 - - [06/May/1998:01:02:21 -0400] "GET/encyclopedia/outline.html HTTP/1.0" 200 13151 194.109.61.72 - - [06/May/1998:01:02:24 -0400] "GET/encyclopedia/topics/008/008.html HTTP/1.0" 200 5630 194.109.61.72 - - [06/May/1998:01:02:27 -0400] "GET/encyclopedia/entries/008_01/008_01.html HTTP/1.0" 200 5742 194.109.61.72 - - [06/May/1998:01:02:27 -0400] "GET/encyclopedia/entries/008_01/images/ray_2.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 12180 194.109.61.72 - - [06/May/1998:01:002:28 -0400] "GET/encyclopedia/contributors/images/rayesposito.jpg HTTP/1.0" 200 2777 That first group of numbers is the address of the ISP of the person who is asking for the files. Is that you? Unless you are running your own server, there is no way to tell. But I _can_ follow the path this person took ... they started at the Encyclopedia Outline, then selected topic 008 (Personal Face of Printmaking), then selected entry 008_01 (Ray's Newbie Journal ...) So somebody came in, and then within six seconds, went straight to Ray's page ... This happened at just after one in the morning, Eastern time. Ray, were you up late the other night? And in case you are wondering, no I do _not_ sit there and go over this stuff line by line. A typical day's log has thirty thousand lines like this. I have better things to do. The server provides a log analyzer program, and runs it for me whenever I ask. I get a report that summarizes all the detail into something more useful ... *** And that reminds me, that top ten list showed that the 'Suppliers in America' page that Phil put together is getting a lot of hits. Phil, how about expanding it with more detail on just what kind of products those places have, etc.? There is obviously a demand for this kind of information ... Dave B. ------------------------------ From: Phil Bivins Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 21:12:05 -0400 Subject: [Baren 717] Re: Copyright <199805071502.AAA31684@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> OK Dave ------------------------------ From: Ray Esposito Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 21:22:32 -0400 Subject: [Baren 718] Re: Copyright <199805071502.AAA31684@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> Dave wrote: >But I _can_ follow the path this person took ... etc. >Ray, were you up late the other night? No, I try my best to get into the sack by 11pm but I love the conversation. Now that I know how it works, if I slip below fourth, I can sneak in at 3am and hit my page 100 times. :>) :>) :>) Ray Esposito ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V3 #149 ***************************