[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest             Saturday, 14 February 1998     Volume 02 : Number 069

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From: Dan Wasserman <dwasser@slam.org>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:06:12 -0800
Subject: [Baren 383] Re: Baren Digest V2 #68 

Dave:

I had asked my friend if the drawing of the paper across the table edge
was best done before or after printing... he said that it was best done
through the back of a completed print [maybe reinforced by being
sandwhiched between sheets of heavier Western paper] but that since that
might be to scary the paper could at least be aged by drawing it across
the table before printing and that the damage to the size would probably
be insuficient to adversly effect the clarity of the subsequent
printing.

I happen to be reading _The Art Forgers Handbook_ by Eric Hebborn who
seems to take his responsibilities as an artist of forgery seriously. 
He discusses in brief the ethics and legality of forgery and the
production of decorative replicas, and points out several interesting
points.
     1. He points out the generous attituted some artist have expressed
concerning forgery (financialy independent artists all I'm sure). 
Picasso: _If the counterfeit were a good one, I should be delighted. I'd
sit down straight away and sign it._  And he discusses the historic
practice of masters signing copies of thier work by prized pupils as a
sign of acknowledgement of accomplishment.
     2. He points out the replicas by certain masters are valued more
than the originals.
     3. He expresses the opinion that successfull fogeries do in fact by
definition have the same monitary value as orginals.
     4. He claims that as of the time of his writing (1997) the
production and sale of forgeries even with facimile signatures is not a
crime in Great Britain so long as the seller makes no false claims
explicetly thereby perpetrating fraud. He said the keys to selling
fogeries is simply to acknowlegdge the expertise of the scholar, dealer,
or sophisticated collector by refraining from describing the work you
present to them in any way and simply letting them tell you what it is
you have proffered to them.  Fraud may be claimed if the asking price
relflects the implicet representation that the work is authentic but
this is side-stepped if the artist asks only for either what a good
quality replica would bring, what an original work signed with his own
name would bring, or the sum to which the cost of materials and a fair
hourly rate for the labor of a plumber or well-trained artisan/scholar
would amount. 

Cheers,
~dan

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From: julio.rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:22:10 -0600
Subject: [Baren 384] washi web site 

For an online web site that has lots of information on washi turn to

http://www.com.rd.pref.gifu.jp/e-main2/kamiwasi/whatwasi.html


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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:30:13 -0800
Subject: [Baren 385] Re: Baren Digest V2 #68 

Dan wrote,

>I happen to be reading _The Art Forgers Handbook_ by Eric Hebborn who
>seems to take his responsibilities as an artist of forgery seriously.

Interesting indeed.
If you copy something in Canada and sign or don't sign it and sell it for
what it is, there is no law against it. Even if you forge the signature and
a statement is attached to the painting (on the back) it is not breaking
the law.

I remember going through the Royal Ontario Museum and then the Toronto Art
Gallery, where I took classes, when I was a kid, watching people copying
stuff, (masters usually). I always wondered nor could understand why people
would want to copy.  I recall the teacher saying that is was a way to learn
to paint and draw.  I asked if originating wouldn't do the same thing.  "No
No my boy this is the traditional method of learning techniques" was the
response. I am sure it would have turned me off, if I had to it.

Different strokes for different folks.

Graham

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:30:10 -0800
Subject: [Baren 386] Re: Aging paper 

Dave Wrote.
>The technique you mention, physical manipulation of the paper, does
>work.  Bashing the paper does make it soft.

The major reason for doing this, is to vent ones frustrations.

>But somehow, I just can't imagine one of Graham's lighthouses done this
>way ... tea stained, dusty and old ...    How about this Graham, have
>you ever had fun playing around with this sort of thing?

Yes I have.  I use pigments to create the effect.  Haven't done this on a
saleable type print.  As you Dave ... just for the hell of it.
I prefer to use pigments as I don't know what time would do with other stuff.

I have a plan afoot to do something with some prints.  When I have worked
out the logistics of the creations I will let you all know.  It hinges on a
major public gallery and there involvement and acceptance.

Graham

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:03:10 -0800
Subject: [Baren 387] Re: washi web site 

Julio wrote.
>For an online web site that has lots of information on washi....turn to

What a wonderful site.  Very explicit and simply illustrated.  Leave it to
Japanese to come up with the effective design.

Thanks,
Graham

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From: Ray Esposito <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:20:10 -0500
Subject: [Baren 388] Re: washi web site 

At 05:22 PM 2/13/98 -0600, you wrote:
>For an online web site that has lots of information on washi....turn to
>
>http://www.com.rd.pref.gifu.jp/e-main2/kamiwasi/whatwasi.html
>
Julio,

Thanks for the tip.  Interesting site.  I must say however that the guy who
designed it must have the greatest eyesight in the world.  By the last page
I thought I was going blind.


Ray Esposito

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:38:22 +0900
Subject: [Baren 389] Re: Aging prints, etc. 

Dan wrote:
> I happen to be reading _The Art Forgers Handbook_ by 
> Eric Hebborn who seems to take his responsibilities 
> as an artist of forgery seriously.

This certainly isn't what I expected to get into when I asked about
making paper soft!  In the particular world I'm in over here, there
_was_ a lot of problem with forgeries some years ago (quite some years
ago).  Once the ukiyoe artists started to get a 'big name' in the west,
plenty of craftsmen here got involved with re-cutting and re-printing
famous prints for sale.  This has been going on for well over a hundred
years or so.

I say that it _was_ a problem, because it really isn't much of an issue
anymore.  It _is_ still important to museums and dealers, because they
have a lot of trouble figuring out what's 'original' and what isn't, but
the gradual decline in technical skills of the remaining workmen over
the past half-century or so has now got us to a position where there
simply isn't anybody left alive who can carve as well as they could
'back then'.  It is now pretty much impossible to forge any more of the
old ukiyoe prints - even if one could find old paper to print them on
...

I wonder though, what people in the west generally think about the sort
of thing that I am doing to make a living - copying old prints and
selling them.  I do put my name on every one so there is no question of
'forgery', but I was criticized once a number of years ago for
'appropriation' - for stealing these aspects of Japanese culture for my
own selfish use.  I wonder about this ...


*****

To Julio:
Thanks for the tip about that washi web site.  Very very informative ...


*****

And now, another small announcement:

Gary and I have been batting some ideas back and forth for a little
while now, and one thing has sort of led to another, and I guess it's
got to the stage where some of the rest of you may be interested.

At the bottom of the main menu page of my own web site there is a new
link ...  
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/main_page.html

I would be very interested in your feedback, and especially interested
in knowing if any other members of [Baren] besides Gary are interested
in participating ...

Dave

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From: Ray Esposito <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 01:00:31 -0500
Subject: [Baren 390] metric conversion 

I don't know about the rest of you but I get totally lost when Dave or
others start tossing around metric numbers.

If you are like me I found a great little metric converter on the web at
http://www.french-property.com/cgi-bin/ifp/convert.pl.  Now I can keep up.
I may still not know what in the heck they're talking about but at least
I'll know what size I don't know what they're talking about. 

Cheers

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From: julio.rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 0:37:25 -0600
Subject: [Baren 391] re: aging 

Dave; what  A GREAT IDEA YOUR NEW PROJECT ! I can see that lots of thought and 
time has been spend....good luck!
 
Dear Baren:
I find it very interesting all this talk about wanting to "age" our prints. It 
would seem that we are trying to defeat the very same properties in the hosho 
paper that make it so special. I would also think that it is not just the 
gelatin sizing breaking down we are feeling and admiring but also the actual 
decomposition of the paper fibers in the prints.  Slow, gradual, unstoppable 
and irreversible Oxidation of the cellulose fibers causing chemical breakdown. 

There is a  protein/enzyme called Cellulase which is naturally found in fungus. 
This natural enzyme takes care of breaking down cellulose (the fibers in plants 
and paper) into sugar glucose. It has been shown that this enzyme has many 
industrial uses. One particular one involves separating ink from inked paper 
pulp in the recycling process. It does this by attacking and separating fibers 
with ink at a different rate than non-inked fibers......

How about this for an experiment.....brush a water-down solution of cellulase 
on "new"  paper, and then after a certain amount of time has expired....the 
process is stopped by rinsing the paper in fresh water......sort of like when 
you use "reducing" chemicals on a photograph to lighten certain areas and then 
quickly stop the process by immersing the photograph in a fixer bath....of 
course a control experiment must be designed and carry out. .. different 
strengths solutions, different paper types, at different temperatures, 
different "cooking" times....etc, etc....
Any chemistry majors out there ?

Julio

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End of Baren Digest V2 #69
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