[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest              Sunday, 8 February 1998      Volume 02 : Number 063

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From: julio.rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 16:39:40 -0600
Subject: [Baren 344] Papers 

Dear Baren;
I am looking for some advice on  japanese printing papers...(my usual stock is 
not japanese). I have a store nearby that carries a few choices....but I am not 
sure if the prices are reasonable and which would be most suitable....help !

No. 6 mm  Hosho (paper roll)  8" x 20 '  Yasutomo & Co., San Francisco, made in 
Japan,$ 6.59
 
No. 6 mmu Sumi Art Paper  Unryu (fibre rice paper)(roll) 11" x 60', Yasutomo & 
Co,$16.69
 
Shuji-Gami,  Kozo Plain Paper, (roll) 18" x 30', Yasutomo & Co.,  $ 10.89

They also stock paper in single sheets of  Kozo & Mulberry (white & different 
tones), approx.. 18" x 24"  at  $4.25- $6.25  a sheet


Thanks....in advance

Julio

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From: Phil Bivins <pbivins@ac.net>
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 1998 19:32:03 -0500
Subject: [Baren 345] Re: Papers 

Julio,  I have tried several types from Daniel Smith and McClain's. I do have
another address for Japanese paper: 
     The Japanese Paper Place
     887 Queen Street West
     Toronto, Ontario,Canada M6J1G5

I have not purchased from these people though it seems they have a nice selection.
They will send you a complementary sample with prices if you ask. Hope this helps.

Phil

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 16:10:24 +0900
Subject: [Baren 346] Re: Papers, 'white' ... 

Julio talked about a few papers ..

> No. 6 mm  Hosho (paper roll)  8" x 20 '   ...
> No. 6 mmu Sumi Art Paper  Unryu  ...
> Shuji-Gami,  Kozo Plain Paper, (roll) 18" x 30' ...

Although it's hard to tell from just the little descriptions, these
sound like calligraphy papers, not woodblock papers.  They are all in
long rolls, suitable for calligraphy practice.  

'Shuji' is the word for calligraphy.  'Sumi Art paper' indicates paper
for sumi painting and calligraphy.

I thus doubt that these papers will be sized, and they will therefore be
'not so useful' for printmaking ...


> They also stock paper in single sheets of  
> Kozo & Mulberry (white & different
> tones), approx.. 18" x 24"  at  $4.25- $6.25  
> a sheet

These sound more like printing papers ...  They are quite cheap, so I
doubt that they are handmade; it's more likely that they are 'kikai
bosho' (machine-made hosho).  That shouldn't stop you ...

The only way to tell with any of these mail order papers, from this
place you've found, Daniel Smith, or wherever - is to order some and try
them out.  Paper just isn't something you can figure out from a
catalogue description.  You've got to get your hands on it, spit on one
corner and rub it between your fingers, hold it up to the light and
inspect the structure, try and tear a bit of it, and of course - try
printing on it.

There are a million papers out there, and many many of them use the same
'names'.  These catalogue lists mean almost nothing ...  Try a bunch of
different papers, find a few you like, and then stick with them until
you've learned how to use them properly.

Good luck!

*****

Ray asked:
> What is the general practice of the color white, 
> as in clouds, in wood block?  Do you cut a block 
> for the color white or is the general practice
> to use the paper color as white?

The prints in those two books you were telling us about the other day
probably all use 'bare paper' to represent white.  That is the
'standard' method in the Japanese tradition.  

A white pigment made from ground-up sea shells is sometimes used these
days - one notable modern example is the 'white' face of women in many
modern woodblock copies of 'nihonga' paintings. A major problem with it
is that it is opaque, and thus covers up the previously printed sumi
lines.

In your case, I suspect the easiest way to go would be to leave the
white areas blank ...

Dave

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 17:29:37 +0900
Subject: [Baren 347] Give up, guys! 

After getting back from a most enjoyable trip to the 'north country',
I've been going through my mailboxes (electronic and 'snail'), and found
something in the latter that I have to share with [Baren].

It's a copy of a little pamphlet published in Kyoto in 1953, when I was
two years old.  It's in English, and was aimed at tourists of the day,
trying to get them to buy woodblock prints made by their company.  I
think they tried a little bit too hard to make their work seem exclusive
and special ...

I'll quote: (I'll type very carefully - this is _exactly_ what he wrote)

> To make a baren, which is an indispensable tool for 
> rubbing paper to a printer, it is necessary to provide a 
> soft bamboo sheath which is secured in Japan only.  Those
> bamboo sheath will be easily splitted by the difference 
> of humidity when they are carried over to other country, 
> and not be able to use them for this purpose.  
> Consequently, it may say that the wood block print can 
> not be made in other country excepting Japan.

OK, there you have it from an 'expert'.  I guess all of you over there
might as well just give up now, and leave the printmaking to me ...

Dave

*****

P.S.  I've done some long-overdue housekeeping on my web site, and as a
result the 'directory paths' to find some things have changed.

The [Baren] Home Page can still be found at the same address:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/baren/default.html

But that is only a new 'front page'.  The Forum side is:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/baren/forum/forum.html

and the Encyclopedia side is now in its 'real' location at:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/baren/encyclopedia/encyclopedia.html

The [Baren] archives are now at:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/baren/forum/archives/archives.html

If you have set a 'bookmark' for the Encyclopedia update page, it should
be altered to:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/baren/encyclopedia/updates.html


If you don't want to bother with any of these 'sub-addresses' note that
all of the stuff can now be accessed from my main web site:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 01:32:29 -0800
Subject: [Baren 348] The Color White 

>What is the general practice of the color white, as in clouds, in wood
>block?  Do you cut a block for the color white or is the general practice
>to use the paper color as white?

Well Ray have you ever done it now.  Printing white is definitely a no no.
It is for amateurs.

No No I'm just kidding.  When I was doing a lot of lectures and teaching
watercolours all across Canada I use to bluntly .. in a kidding way ....
advise wanta be artists to stay away from white in watercolours.  Now since
this woodblock stuff uses watercolours I tend to the same line of thinking.
Unless it is (A white pigment made from ground-up sea shells) the stuff
David mentions, the result look terrible.

Now having said all that I decided to experiment (which I like to do) with
some white on a print just last week.  Hey you know what ... it did exactly
what I wanted it to do.   It is a ghosty appearance and worked just fine.
I used a waterbase colourant which I would define as semi opaque. It took
to impressions to get the look I wanted.

When I get the print digitized and on my site I will advise so you can have
a looky lou.

I say if you don't improvise and experiment then you may grow.

cheers.
Graham

ps  David mentioned...... thus covers up the previously printed sumi lines
..... well I haven't progressed to that stage and using white does not
present the problem.  I am anxious to design a piece that way and will
....when my series is finished....just two more years.

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 01:34:04 -0800
Subject: [Baren 349] Re: Papers 

Good morning Julio.

I am not very fimiliar with all the papers and where they are in pecking
order compared to the paper that I use.   Maybe the info about my paper you
may give you a better idea about the list you have shown.

The paper I use is called a Kizuki Hosho, is a 100% Kozo fiber, natural
Size is 55cm x 70cm (for you older guys it is 21 3/4" x 27 3/4"  Depending
on the value of the Japanese Yen the price is quite steep....  NO ....
bloody expensive  The last price was $32.00 per sheet and have paid as high
as 39.00.
To get this price I have to purchase a batch lot which is 300 sheets.  My
last bill was just under  $10,000.00.

Phil mentioned a supplier in Toronto:
> The Japanese Paper Place
         
If I were to purchase the paper I use from them I was quoted a price of
58.00 per sheet about 4 years ago.  However you don't have to buy a batch.
They will sell you a few sheets.  I have seen the Kizuki Hosho here in
Victoria for about that price.

I'm sure David will throw light on this subject.

Graham

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End of Baren Digest V2 #63
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