[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Tuesday, 3 February 1998 Volume 02 : Number 058 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Esposito Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:35:15 -0500 Subject: [Baren 307] Encylopedia Suggestions It suddenly dawned on me (things suddenly dawning on me happens all the time). Our new encylopedia has more entries than we might think. David has asked for contributions but many may already have been written. We just don't know it. Recall back to the early days of Baren. (Is it just me or does it seem like we have been doing this for years?) There was a great discussion on sharpening tools. I can't think of a better subject for the encylopedia. One of you more experienced members, particularly one who was involved in that discussion, could write a great piece on sharpening tools. And remember all of those dumb questions I asked? Besides pulling my chain, many of you gave me great advice on which kinds of wood to use and how to choose proper wood; what is the best paper for wood blocks and the differences between them? Another article on how to deal with problems of grain and how to solve them. What about where to get and how to use tools; different kinds of presses; etc. How about one of you writing about using a baren vs. a press? All this has been discussed on Baren. And should we ignore the history of block printing? I do not think so. This is an encylopedia. How about an article on the differences between Japanese and Western wood block printing or a short history of the two? What about the past discussions on ink? Or remember the great series of posts that dealt with gradations? I didn't understand a damn word of it. Looking back now, I understand about 50%. By referring to the encylopedia I will continue to learn. I could go on but you get the idea. A good start to the encylopedia has already been written. All we need to do is gather the info from past posts. A great encylopedia should never stop growing and with all the talent on this forum, it never will. This is written from the viewpoint of a newbie and is very basic. But an encylopedia is a document that deals with the basic. By concentrating on the basics we can get the encylopedia off to a great start. Here is your chance for a byline guys. For what it's worth..... Ray ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:56:47 -0800 Subject: [Baren 308] Re: various postings ... Dave wrote >That is just how it is done here. The tree rarely gives wood any wider >than three inches or so. (There Graham, I've used 'inches'! _Now_ how >old am I?) Just right. This reminds me of when I reached that magic age of 40 I got a wire from my twin brother who said "Happy Birthday. Whats it feel like being over the hill." "I wired back .....Forties great, lookout world here I come." >because only small pieces are inlaid as >needed. Can you explain the method of inlaying and what thickness of boxwood are you using? >But how far can I go >with this sort of theft? I'm confused....what theft? If you are using material from the Baren and credit is given to the writer and that writer agrees...which I know I have said go ahead and use my writings....and if I didn't then you got it now....there isn't a theft. Do you feel we just came a complete circle! >If I see something here on [Baren] that I think should be in there - >should I just go ahead and 'take it', Sure just put the guys name showing credit. Is this getting repetitive or what. >making a more clear separation between 'commercial' and >'educational' stuff ... Good thinking. >But then I realized that block preparation is >perhaps a major part of what some of you are doing ... I guess I'm a >bit spoiled by getting my wood from a professional block maker. Yes and Yes >No, come to think of it, I'm _not_ spoiled ... for a piece of wood about >400mm x 280mm x 23mm I pay him 12,000 yen. But I tell you - you don't >know what _smooth_ is until you've run your hand over one of these >blocks! mm .......You just got younger. (<: I kind of think you are spoil and rich . 12000 yen translated to $137.80 Canadian. The print I just finished had 7 plates ........ $964.60 just for wood......I know I would be doing a lot more drawing with my $4.00 pastel or $7.00 watercolour paper and the hell with the wood stuff. (<: I just got the buy of the decade. A floor model joiner. 36" bed, 3 knives head, 6'wide for 100 bucks. The gentleman was 80 and felt he shouldn't be using it anymore. Had sight problems. Graham ------------------------------ From: julio.rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:01:46 -0600 Subject: [Baren 309] Theft, Money Graham wrote: > If you are using material from the Baren >and credit is given to the writer and that writer agrees...which I know I >have said go ahead and use my writings.... The same goes for me and any stuff I might post in Baren. Graham wrote: >The print I just finished had 7 plates ........ $964.60 just for wood...... Yes, and about 1/2 of it ends up on the floor! Is that kind of like throwing money away ? A good piece of cherry wood of the size Dave talks about ( 15.75 x 11 x 9/10) here in the states would probably cost about ..... $20 - $25. If you are willing to come down to 3/4 thick... you probably talking $10 - $15. Of course you then would have to spend time getting it ready for carving (time = $$$$). Now how does that go again....deci=1/10, centi=1/100 & milli=1/1000.....it's like third grade all over again ! Now; how old am I ? Dave.... one question (is the going price about 435 yen ?) I have seen different versions of the traditional suridai (printing bench). Sometimes it is described as having a sloped surface (10-15 degrees) away from the printmaker. Is this how you print ? How about the other Baren members ? What are the benefits ? (as compared to printing on a flat surface). I suppose it you were kneeling down while printing....leaning over... it may allow you to exert more pressure on the baren/print ??? Do your japanese printmaker friends work like this ? Thanks. Julio ------------------------------ From: Graham Scholes Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:55:56 -0800 Subject: [Baren 310] Re: Theft, Money Julio wrote, >I have seen different versions of the traditional suridai (printing bench). >... How about the other Baren members ? It is for comfort when laying the paper, easier on the wrists when printing and also to see the shine of the pigment on the plate. I work flat and depending on the size of print area as to whether I stand or sit. The bigger the area to more pressure so standing facilitates this. Graham ------------------------------ From: Phil Bivins Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 20:23:17 -0500 Subject: [Baren 311] Re: Theft, Money I was looking thru McClain's 1997 Fall Catalog. In there is good description of the Suridai. Also a good article on the Biomechanics of Printing. Having had major back surgery several years ago, (eight of my vertabrae were fused) the only way I am able to print is standing. In their article it states the height of the Suridai is critical. One that is too high reduces power; too low puts undue strain on the printer's arm and lower back. They suggest for optimum power the suridai height should be about 3 to 4 inches below the navel, with the angle between 10 and 15 degrees down away from the printer. I would like to build one, is doesn't look to difficult. Later, Phil ------------------------------ From: Ray Esposito Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:00:51 -0500 Subject: [Baren 312] Re: various postings ... Dave wrote: >And this brings up a question: At the moment, the Encyclopedia is just >sort of a test bed for the whole idea. I've been pasting things into it >simply to try and get a feel for how it would work. But how far can I go >with this sort of theft? Dave, This is a little silly. Baren is an open forum. Anyone posting to it should know their words are not protected or copyrighted. My opinion is you are the moderator of Baren. You are the editor of the encyclopedia. Use what you want. I do not like the word theft. It is not theft. And above all, no one considers you a thief. As a courtesy, if someone objects, their words can be stricken from the encylopedia. On the other hand, as a courtesy to you, and if it will make you feel better, each of us can give you permission ahead of time, as I do here. I notice a number of members have written and I respect them for it but it is not, should not be a requirement. Ray Esposito ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 12:58:09 +0900 Subject: [Baren 313] Re: Theft ... OK, thanks for the comments on 'theft', etc. Here's the approach I'll take on using peoples' postings: (1) Postings to the [Baren] forum itself are considered to be words 'spoken in public'. That doesn't give anybody else the right to use them for other purposes, but does assume that the speaker intends the words to be heard by anybody. The [Baren] archive is thus open to the world for anybody to read (but not for anybody to reprint or distribute for their own profit). (2) The Encyclopedia - at least as it is conceived at present - is an extension of the [Baren] forum, but moves into slightly different territory - it is I think, actually a 'publication' (and later this evening I'll rewrite the front page to include a copyright notice). I see two quite different ways to use your material in the Encyclopedia: (a) short messages from [Baren] being 'clipped' and organized into convenient groups, and posted in the Encyclopedia's own web site. One such sample is now up there - the Q/A section on Mold. Did [Baren] members want their ideas to be useful to somebody trying to stop mold in the paper? Of course they did, and by putting those postings in the Encyclopedia, the accessibility of that information is dramatically multiplied. I will continue to do this without asking permission. (Another such section is the Bibliography). (b) formal Encyclopedia entries, written as such, and stored on the writer's own web site (if he has one - if not, then on the Encyclopedia's own web site). For such contributions I will request the writer to return the 'Contributor's Agreement' (just as soon as I get it written, that is!). The writer/publisher relationship will thus be clearly spelled out, and you will be protected from having your name attached to a major piece that may or may not reflect your real ideas and intentions. So I think this should do it. Your rights to your ideas will be protected, but the public will have reasonable access to the information you have offered. But be careful - things you say on [Baren] just might end up being spread more widely and for a longer time than you might have intended. So speak clearly and get your facts right! The world and the future is watching! Dave P.S. OK, now that I think that's settled, let's 'up the ante'. Suppose, just suppose, that once the Encyclopedia was basically filled out, with good contributions in all the sections, and lots of photos, etc. ... wouldn't it make a great CD-ROM! Now _there's_ trouble! How to pay all the multitude of contributors? Each guy gets a tenth of a cent per copy? ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V2 #58 **************************