[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest              Sunday, 25 January 1998      Volume 02 : Number 048

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From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:51:19 -0500
Subject: [Baren 230] ADDRESSES 

Ray,

   In response to your request for our graphic web-sites, mine is at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/GLuedtke
or David has a link on his "links" page to mine.

Gary

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From: amoss@mindspring.com (John Amoss)
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:25:08 +0300
Subject: [Baren 231] rods, cones and pixels 

Hey y'all-

The issue of choosing color on the computer was brought up. Here are my 2
cents on digital and analog color decision making:

I have found it usefull to break colors in a scene down if you want to be
objective about color. It's overwhelming to me, so when I am doing
watercolors in the field, I take along a cheap plastic kaleidescope to
break down the colors into a few choices. It's akin to squinting when you
draw. I have also reduced colors schemes of photographs digitally (using
the mosaic filter in Photoshop) to say ten colors. In either technique, I
am always amazed at the beauty of the color pallette- miraid greys and
browns dominate the schemes. Pure color is a rare animal. I have read that
to understand colors, you have to name them. Warm dark low-key yellow is my
wife's eye color. I'm sure she would prefer a more romantic description,
though.

Gary-
You mentioned the fact that computer-based drawing is very crude and user
un-friendly. Are you using a paint program or a drawing program to apply
color?  It shouldn't be a problem to scan your images into a paint program
and applying color to it by using the "darken mode". If you are using a
drawing program as I do in my illustrations, you can either paste a scanned
image and work on a lower layer to apply color or you can convert your
drawing into individual shapes (geekspeak description below).

I do the following for my commercial illustrations: See
"http://www.mindspring.com/~amoss/digital.html" for a few examples.

To start, make a pencil sketch. Use a small brush(or pen) and ink using a
issue positioned over the sketch to create line art. Scan the ink drawing
as line art (bitmap) at a high resolution (600dpi+) using a paint program
(Photoshop- Mac application). I then use an automatic tracing program
(Adobe Streamline) to create individual shapes from the scan. Illustrator
also has a less-sophisticated version built in to the drawing program.
Import it into the drawing program (Freehand, Illustrator). At this point,
send the black line art (keyblock) to the top layer, lock it and work in
the lower layers to add color. As you may know, you can get transparent
effects in both print and drawing programs. You can even mimic the amount
of opaqueness of the pigments by adjusting transparency.
For producing separations  for reproduction, you can even adjust the
trapping so that you get an overlap to minimize registration errors. I
output it on a laserwriter using acetate with registration marks for screen
printing.

- -john
http://www.mindspring.com/~amoss

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From: Gary Luedtke <GLuedtke@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:55:11 -0500
Subject: [Baren 232] rods, cones and pixels 

John,

   I use a paint program, not a drawing program.   To enlarge on my point;
the mouse, or stylus, or trackball are too clumsy to achieve decent line
quality to my way of thinking based on my experience.   If you think of the
line in terms of a natural, fluid expression of direction, the mouse does
not have the finesse to follow your thought or impulse as a pen or brush
does.  It is too clumsy.  All forms of the mouses I've tried, (above)
require too much hand-muscle exertion to allow free and graceful motion. 
You're usually squeezing one of the buttons with your thumb while you're
trying to loosely guide the mouse in a gracefull motion and it just doesn't
work for me.  I'm probably too self-conscious about it, I  don't know.   A
brush or a pen seems a more natural extension of artistic impulse.   Like
the calligraphy in one of David's prints, it has a nice graceful quality
with a beautiful and natural narrowing and broadening of width, which is
another qualilty I've never seen easily achievable on a computer.

   So, I draw the line drawing with a pen or brush, then scan that into the
computer and go from there.   I am new at this however, and a complete
novice with a computer, so keep the advice and tips coming.

Gary

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:42:56 -0800
Subject: [Baren 233] Re: ADDRESSES 

On the subject of web pages.
I will be putting links for all the bods here on the Baren.
It may take a little time.
So busy these days in the studio. Drawing & Printing
Planting the seed in the green house. Drawing  & Printing.   Cut planks
from trees that we took down this winter. Drawing & Printing
Framing for a small show of life drawings with my friend.  Drawing & Printing

Sorry I got carried away.

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 08:35:02 +0900
Subject: [Baren 234] Re: ADDRESSES 

Has everybody forgotten about the [Baren] Home Page?

There is a complete clickable list of Members' Web Sites maintained
there, and I update it everytime somebody with a web site joins the
group.

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/baren/default.html

Dave

P.S.  Maybe this a good time to ask - on that page some of the sites are
marked with a [Baren] mark to signify 'printmaking' content.  The other
sites have nothing.  Anybody have a suitable graphic I can use for
'general' content?

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From: Ray Esposito <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:36:04 -0500
Subject: [Baren 235] Re: Press vs Baren 

Dave wrote:
>I don't know this book (I'd be interested to hear more about it), but
>the process he is describing sounds like that of preparing a block for
>wood _engraving_, not _cutting_.  

Oops!  

It is obvious I wrote a lousy post in asking the question.  I do not want
or need to know about wood engraving.  That is not what this forum is all
about.  I agree with David on that.  No, all I was asking, in my poorly
worded way, was, 

For Wood Cuts Only:

1.  What kind of wood does everyone use?
2.  Do you do anything to prepare the wood?

I hope that is worded better.

While I have your ear, please permit me to address another matter.  Because
I am a rookie artist I ask a lot of questions.   My office and studio is in
my home and I live alone.  I understand -  I REALLY DO, that most of you
have families, art is your business and your time is valuable and limited.
I do not expect an answer immediately. If I ever ask a question you want to
respond to but have to wait, a day - a week- two weeks, that is fine by me.
 Your family and business are much more important than my questions.  I
understand I am impinging on your time and appreciate your using some of it
for me.  Respond when you have time.  I will still be here.

P.S.  The book is on woodcut and does not cover wood engraving.

Ray Esposito

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From: Ray Esposito <brassring@brassring.org>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:37:52 -0500
Subject: [Baren 236] Re: etching press 

Graham wrote:
>Hi Ray.
>
>Did you see the makeshift press that Dan Wasserman mentioned.
>http://members.aol.com/oilcolors/images/press.gif

Yes.  Dan send the info to me.  The only problem is I am a total klutz with
a hammer and saw but it is definity worth looking into.

Ray Esposito

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From: Matthew.W.Brown@VALLEY.NET (Matthew W Brown)
Date: 24 Jan 98 23:38:19 EST
Subject: [Baren 237] Wood,etc. 

Baren,

Gary,
	Thank you for going to such detail explaining your working process,
certainly more than what I did which was to duck your question. I might try an
answer by sharing a belief  I have about this color woodcut business:
	Basically I think of it as a process that, because of the many steps
and players (blocks, colors,etc.) involved, adds a great deal of space and time
to making a picture. From a certain point of view this may seem laborious, but
when you consider that in some ways the strongest work of art is the one that
is able to absorb and reflect a great amount of energy  (think of the condensed
energy in a tiny Vermeer painting, or the quantity of energy spread out onto
the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel), the color woodcut process has a lot to be
said for it. Ultimately we must make the prints color by color as one would a
painting, only with plenty of time to think about each step. We can deal with
issues of form and shape in a separate time from issues of color, something one
just can't do while painting where with each brush stroke one is committing to
both color and form at the same time. 
				   The difficulty I have with drawing on the
computer is that there is no resistance, and so it feels terribly clumsy. A
pencil on paper, there is a limit here, and I feel I can find something to
follow. The pencil/ pen has a mind of its own to be worked with (or against).
The resistance of the knife in the wood is even more so. It seems so excellent
that the wood has its own mind; and the printmaker can be open and listening to
this, even while pulling the knife. Was not the printmaker you worked with (was
it Keiji?) doing this as he interpreted your images and brought them around in
the final period of the game?

Ray,
	There are certainly other woodblock artists out there, lots, and
working with all manner of combinations of approaches. One who is quite
successful and lives in my area has recently put up a web-site:
www.sabrafield.com
She prints on shina (basswood) plywood with commercial rubber-based inks, using
rollers to apply ink, and either a baren or press, on a Japanese-made "Moriki"
paper.

	Actually basswood is a very good wood to start out on. You can get the
basswood plywood from McLain's (you'll have to go to my site , "The Shop", for
phone/address). If you want solid basswood blocks you may have to get them from
someone like myself or Graham (and I would ship some to you. . . for $, a  bit
more per sq. inch than the plywood). Why, you could carve into them and them
ship them to Dave to print! Why, I could carve kento into them, you could use a
xerox approach instead of the key block method (a how-to explanation would be
included in your order), and you'd be right in the print business. . .! 

Dave,
	You wrote on the bokashi:
>Very long gradations - I mean long from dark to light, not long in width
>- are done in multiple passes, gradually extending the area of operation
>each time. 

By multiple passes do you mean separate rubbings/ impressions?

Also, am curious how you go about applying pigment directly to the brush.

Also, is the "shin seki ei" a cobalt yellow, a cadmium yellow, or . . . do you
know of an english name for it? 

Sincerely,
Matt
	
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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:56:44 +0900
Subject: [Baren 238] Re: Gradations, etc. 

Matt wrote:
>> ... on the bokashi: Very long gradations - are done in multiple passes

> By multiple passes do you mean separate rubbings/ impressions?

Yes, completely separate impressions.  Finish the first pass of the
gradation on the entire stack of paper, then go back to the beginning
and do the next pass ... and the next if necessary.

They sort of 'stack up' like this:
*****
**********
***************
(if you get the idea ...)



> Also, am curious how you go about applying pigment directly to the brush.

Hold the brush 'hair side up', dip the 'hakobi' (the little bamboo
'brush' that carries the pigment) into the bowl, and dab it onto the
hair at one end of the brush - in exactly the same place each time. 
Never turn the brush end-for-end, as one end is the 'full' end and one
end is the 'empty' end ...

 
> Also, is the "shin seki ei" a cobalt yellow, a cadmium yellow, or . . . do you
> know of an english name for it?

You've got me here.  I have no experience with the pigments you mention,
and don't know if this is an equivalent.  The three chinese characters
translate as 'new' 'stone' 'yellow'.  It has a faint greenish tinge to
it sometimes ...


****

Ray wrote about a book he has ...
>> I have a book - Woodcut by David Oravez.
...
>> P.S.  The book is on woodcut and does not cover wood engraving.

Ray, I'm trying to get my hands on everything that's ever been printed
on woodblock printmaking.  Can you give me a bit more info on this book
please - publisher, date, etc. ...


****

A bit of news for everybody ...

In response to the numerous inquiries from [Baren] members, both on this
forum and in private emails, I have been trying to find a good Japanese
source of tools and materials for you.  As some of you know, I made a
few attempts to set up a 'bridge' with individual craftsmen, but none of
those contacts worked out in practice, as those people are not exactly
what you would call 'progressive' business people.

I then made the rounds of some large art supply houses, but found none
that were willing or able to start accepting orders from overseas.

This afternoon I visited a Mr. Matsumura, a gentleman who is the owner
of a large lumber supply company.  He is a hanga hobbyist, and some
years ago set up a small hanga supply shop in one corner of his office. 
It has slowly grown over the years, and he now has an excellent stock of
tools and supplies, some aimed at hobbyists, some at professionals.

I talked to him last week on the phone, and one purpose of this
afternoon's visit was to try and encourage him to set up a web site of
his own - a web site on which you would be able to see photos and
descriptions of the tools, along with a way to order them.  But I wasn't
so successful in my 'sales' job, and this won't be happening tomorrow. 
What he _is_ going to do though, is add English commentary to his next
catalogue, due out in a few months.

I will keep you in touch with what comes of this, and in the meantime,
I'll think about posting some information on what sort of stuff he has
available.  His selection of Barens is excellent, with every level
represented - from 3,000 yen to about 120,000 yen.  I saw a new type
there this afternoon with a lacquered wooden disk (instead of the
multi-layered washi disk of a 'hon' baren), and with a wound 'tetron'
cord (instead of the braided bamboo).  If I close my eyes it feels
almost exactly the same as the 'original'.  I bought one, and will give
it a try over the next couple of days.  It's one-tenth the price of a
'hon-baren' - 7,000 yen instead of 70,000 or so ...

This may turn out to be a very useful contact ...

Dave

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End of Baren Digest V2 #48
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