[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking. Baren Digest Saturday, 24 January 1998 Volume 02 : Number 046 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew.W.Brown@VALLEY.NET (Matthew W Brown) Date: 23 Jan 98 10:20:25 EST Subject: [Baren 211] Re: Questions Baren: Graham, > Ya, I think I have already reported that the Victoria Library does > not have a selection of how to book on the subject. Take a look at Dave's list of reference materials on his web-site. Other than a book published in the early part of this century by an Englishman Fletcher I think he has most everything in English listed that is out there of real significance (it's not a long list). Are not the books you refer to on the shelf at your library, Dave, in Japanese? Gary, Some questions for you: Can you write a bit of how you made your woodblock images (the ones on your web-site)? You had someone else print them for you? What kind of sketch or drawing did you work up? Did you get involved during the building of the blocks; for instance, after the key block was cut and printed? Did you get involved with selecting/mixing colors? Dave, Am curious about how you go after mixing and printing greens? Do you use indigo and . . .? Also, when you are doing the bokashi (the fades), are you blending into water or into paste. I am finding going to water encourages that "sesame" texturing while more paste seems to blend more smoothly, but am curious because H. Yoshida speaks of using water and taking care to not use to much paste. Why wouldn't he have wanted to use lots of paste? Phil, Have you scoped out the Walter Phillips site? There is his entire book of "Technique of the Color Woodblock" posted. You can get there through Dave's site or mine at www.ooloopress.com. Matt ------------------------------ From: Dan Wasserman Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:55:13 -0800 Subject: [Baren 212] Printing Press Ray et al. There is a plan up for the twenty dollar car jack press I use with students at and an image pulled with it is at . The later is a plate I cutr after Holbein and that my wife printed on the jack press. HOWEVER, a ruputable discount retailer out of North Carolina that I use, Jerry's Artarama at 1(800)U-Artist, is selling a good 10x15 inch Italian Student Intaglio Press for US $149.00 ($166.00 delivered here in continental US). - -dan- ------------------------------ From: Dan Wasserman Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:54:32 -0800 Subject: [Baren 213] Handling Prints Hi: I used to be a Museum Registrar back in New York City. My practice then was to have currators, handlers, et al. use a folded over flap of a heavy stock acid free paper to handle prints since this minimizes the danger of tear or puncture posed by a metal tweezer type instrument, is disposable, and simply more down to earth. We also tried to hold prints or turn pages of books by gripping them in diverse and a typical spots on their edges... the folded over paper is what intaglio printers us in the studio to avoid fingerprints on their paper. We used glasine for interleaving the prints or special archival storage quality plastic sheets. The big supplier of such materials in the US is Light Impressions. The best storage is breathable boxes in boxes (in boxes?) such as I understand are used for diverse treasures in Japanese shrines... this insolates the work from climatic shock while avoiding the risk of dew points etc. associated with micro-climates in sealed environments that are not filled with inert gas such as the thin helium filled glass box the US constitution is housed in. - -danw- ------------------------------ From: Dan Wasserman Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:15:34 -0800 Subject: [Baren 214] Classes > I tried to set up a class at my studio about 3 years ago . > Advertised at.... > We spent about $300. advertising and promoting and got 3 people > registered.It was cancelled. I am the Adult Classes Coordinator at a Midwestern City Art Museum and we have had maybe two hundred enrollments for woodblock printing in the last couple years with some number of amature printers continuing in the medium after classes. Among other things, I market it as a way for people with MFAs in printmaking from years back to get back into printmaking again without the overhead of an intaglio set up. I also do nasty things like suggest the use of Dremell-type grinder hand tools for block carving. P.S. My friend who was carving two-by-fours has resorted to large poster style woodcuts on plywood to promote local restaurants... P.P.S. Dave, which Baren digest has your coments on color seperation? - -dan- ------------------------------ From: Gary Luedtke Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:00:19 -0500 Subject: [Baren 215] Re: Questions In response to Matt's question of Baren 211; How did I make the woodblock images on my web site and what was my involvement in the steps? (As I am not a printer/carver) All of my woodblock images to this point were done in the following way . I work at a pen and ink drawing at the size of the future key-block until I am satisfied. I then xerox it numerous times and set the original aside, take up the xerox copies and work up color pencil drawings until I am happy with one. That then serves as a color guide for my printer. If alterations then are required on the original drawing for some reason, I redraw it making corrections. That drawing was then photographed and with a photographic negative I had a magnesium plate acid etched to the thickness of maybe 1/16 to 1/8 inch thick. This then became the keyblock plate. I would mount this on a board and provide a kento guide in the two usual places. This then was shipped off to my printer who then made the necessary corrections and printed off the required number of pasting sheets, affixing them to the blocks after doing a color separation, and carving and proofing several variants for me to judge as to certain effects or techniques. We would then make several round trips of proofs in addition to long-distance phone conversations until I was happy with the results, when he would then proceed to print the edition. On one occasion I travelled to Boston for a week to join him and observe the whole process from start to proofing. We couldn't squeeze it all into a week, but I was there long enough to advise over his shoulder what type of color and gradations I was after. By the time I left, it looked rather disappointing, perhaps from my paying too close attention and not letting him figure out his own way to get the results I was looking for. When I finally got the last proofs, I was amazed at how he had achieved exactly what I was looking for and had done a fine job of making something presentable out of what I had become unhappy with. It was a good experience for me, and I learned alot. That is basically it. Since that time, I have acquired a computer, scanner and color printer. I now scan my basic drawings in and find I can cover much more ground by using computer art programs to work up the color schemes and gradations. It does a marvelous job at that. This really allows me to hone in the effects I am after much more that doing a color pencil sketch. Those would often take days and I would do them half a dozen times before approaching anything satisfactory. I can explore quite a few options in design and color in a relatively short period of time and print out what I want to save in a matter of minutes. I am hoping that this will improve the quality of my designs as well as give the printer a more definite idea of what I'm after. What I am unhappy about so far with the computer art programs is the clumsiness of attempting to draw anything with finesse, or really anything at all. As my father says, it's like trying to draw with a brick. But I enjoy drawing by hand and always intend to do so. The computer just saves time when it comes to the drudge work, the "painting" in of it. It is a very handy tool. But there is NOTHING like a good woodblock print! (I don't mean to suggest that coloring in a design is boring, it is really enjoyable for me to see it take shape. But color pencils take a longgggg time.) Hope I answered your questions Matt. If not, I'll be happy to address anything specifically. Gary ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:44:45 +0900 Subject: [Baren 216] Re: Questions Matt wrote: > Are not the books you refer to on the > shelf at your library, Dave, in Japanese? Yes, every one of them! > Dave, > Am curious about how you go after mixing and printing greens? Do you > use indigo and . . .? I have two basic blues: indigo ('hon ai'), and ultramarine (referred to here as 'verence' or 'gunjo'). My yellow is known as 'shin seki ei', and is a modern replacement for the pigment known as 'seki-o', which I've got here, but don't like to use (50% sulphur, 50% arsenic). Sumi ink also sometimes goes into the mix ... I find green very tough. There are _so_ many possible shades, it seems way way more than in any other area of the spectrum. Is this because of the 'green' natural world in which we live? Do people who grow up in the Australian outback see the red/brown world as full of infinite variation? > Also, when you are doing the bokashi (the fades), are you blending into > water or into paste? I am finding going to water encourages that "sesame" > texturing while more paste seems to blend more smoothly, but am curious because > H. Yoshida speaks of using water and taking care to not use to much paste. Why > wouldn't he have wanted to use lots of paste? The block is first moistened all over to get it ready (starting with a dry block doesn't give one any control ...). The basic procedure is then: (1) Wipe the surface of the entire carved area with a moistened cloth. (Take a small block of wood, wrap a cloth around it tightly, holding this in place with tacks or a small metal clip. Soak it, and keep it sitting on the printing bench sitting on a tile.) (2) Put a dab of paste at the 'base' of the gradated area (heaviest part). (3) Use a brush that is long enough to cover the entire area of desired gradation; Apply the pigment to the brush - not the block, putting the pigment in that part of the brush that will sweep in the area of deep colour. (4) Swish the brush back and forth, rather than in the usual circular motion. In the first few 'test' copies, the colour will be too weak at the lighter end of the gradation, but colour will slowly start to 'migrate' up there. Very long gradations - I mean long from dark to light, not long in width - - are done in multiple passes, gradually extending the area of operation each time. (Not directly after each other, but after the paper has 'rested') If the amount of water on the block is too much, the impression will be that 'goma' (sesame) type that you spoke of. The Yoshidas all like this a lot, and thus they use a lot of water. The old Ukiyo-e stuff was nearly all done with very very smooth impressions, thus less water - more paste. It's tricky to find the right balance. Keep in mind when reading the Yoshida books that their comments are directed at making their style of prints - many many overprintings of very 'wet' colour. Your stuff (Matt) is much more open and lighter in tone ... I watched Komatsu-san (their head printer) do a 'mizu zuri' (water printing) one day. The stack of paper was prepared as usual, carefully moistened. Just before he started rubbing the baren on any particular impression (with the paper already face down on the block), he pulled the next sheet off the prepared stack, placed it on a board by his side, and used the water brush to totally bathe it in water. He then returned to his rubbing, and finished that sheet. He then put pigment on the block, picked up the now completely saturated sheet, and put it on the block. He used an 'ategawa' (backing sheet) to protect it during the rubbing (but before he started rubbing, he of course soaked the _next_ sheet to get it ready ...). They like using a lot of water, those guys ... *** Dan asked: > Dave, which [Baren] digest has your comments on color separation? I don't quite know what you're referring to, Dan. In one post I described all the colours on my New Year print - it's in [Baren] Digest #28. Is that what you meant? Dave ------------------------------ From: Ray Esposito Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:48:12 -0500 Subject: [Baren 217] Re: etching press Graham wrote: >I know of a person here on Vancouver Island that makes presses. > ... >Let me know and I will persue it. Please, please, pretty please Ray Esposito ------------------------------ From: Ray Esposito Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:52:54 -0500 Subject: [Baren 218] Re: Nothing to do with art Denny wrote: >Hi - My name is Denny Hansen. I think that I am the only "chick" on >the list - but having been "one of the guys" all my life - don't >worry... I will not be so crass as to ask your age but the last time I heard someone called or call themselves "a chick" was in the '50's. It brought back some great high school memories and a few "chicks" I remember fondly. Ray ------------------------------ From: Ray Esposito Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:58:01 -0500 Subject: [Baren 219] Re: Nothing to do with art Gary wrote: > I think in your years of experience Graham, and your locale, there has >to be some interesting stories there > ... > There is an underlying passion here for the art, we all have this need >to create, where did it come from, how did it manifest itself to us, >therein lies a tale, I'm sure. You have hit on one of the major reasons this forum is so special and why it is unlike any forum on the Internet. You get the feeling that you are talking to friends. You can be free and easy in your comments and know they care and are interested in what you have to sy. We have just passed our 200th post and I do not know of one of them I have not read or enjoyed.....even those techie ones between Garham and Dave where I didn't have the foggiest idea what in the heck they were talking about. Weird. Ray ------------------------------ From: Ray Esposito Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:35:12 -0500 Subject: [Baren 220] Re: Printing Press Dan wrote: >HOWEVER, a ruputable discount retailer out of North Carolina that I >use, Jerry's Artarama at 1(800)U-Artist, is selling a good 10x15 inch >Italian Student Intaglio Press for US $149.00 ($166.00 delivered her in >continental US). Thank you. I have Jerry's catalog and was impressed with the press. My problem was, the price is sooooo low, it was a little difficult to believe. I will wait until all opinions are in and then decide. Matt is looking into a press in Canada which may be more money but might be a better press. It is difficult to decide. Ray ------------------------------ From: Ray Esposito Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:38:20 -0500 Subject: [Baren 221] Re: Classes Graham wrote: >> I tried to set up a class at my studio about 3 years ago . >> Advertised at.... >> We spent about $300. advertising and promoting and got 3 people >> registered.It was cancelled. Dan wrote: >I am the Adult Classes Coordinator at a Midwestern City Art Museum and >we have had maybe two hundred enrollments for woodblock printing in the >last couple years ... I am jealous, envious and peeved. Living in print wasteland with no classes for woodblock is tearing me up. Ray ------------------------------ From: Ray Esposito Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:13:46 -0500 Subject: [Baren 222] A Couple Points I have been away a couple of days. I got a call from a gentleman in Destin, Florida who wanted to donate a $37,000 boat to the Society. Rather than chance snail-mail or him change his mind, I hopped in the car, drove ten hours, got the paperwork transferred, then gave it to a dealer to sell for us. I then turned right around and drove ten more hours to get home. If my next few posts are more mumbled than usual, you will understand. I am a little tired. Not on our home page are two new programs for kids. This boat was for our Maritime Adventure in which we take donated boats, berth them in marinas around the country and use them on weekends to take terminally ill and disabled kids on fishing and boat trips. Some boats, like the in Destin are not suitable for wheelchairs or have the facility to strap kids in safely. These we sell and use the money to maintain the other boats so I wanted to get it done immediately. Anyway I got home to a long list of great posts on Baren and met some new friends ---- even a chick. I have tried, with luck, clearly, to reply where appropriate. I have a couple of things I would like to address. When I asked about the printing press, I got a lot of great suggestions and offers of help. I did not get what I expected, a debate on using a press instead of a baren. I am not trying to start an debate (of course you are Esposito....let it rip). I thought someone would talk about why presses are terrible and others would jump in on the other side. Truely, I would be interested in knowing the pros and cons of using a press vs. a baren. Is it something a simple as, "what works, works". The second point came to me while driving home. (Long drives can be mentally dangerous.) I have seen almost every subject discussed on this forum except wood. If it has been covered there is no need to go over it again, just point me to the post number. Do you prefer certain woods? Do you prepare your woods differently for different projects. I have a book - Woodcut by David Oravez. He says to cover the block with gasso for a white background and printers ink for a black. Correct? What do you do? Do you prefer a soft wood to make it easier to cut and if yes, does that wear out the block faster? It seems to this rookie, a successful print starts with a good piece of wood, properly prepared? Is that right? If not, aren't you asking for trouble? Am I making too much of this and I should take a piece of plywood, give it a light sanding, slap something on top and cut away? I am missing something important in my woodcutting and I think it begins at the beginning. As always, thanks for helping. I'm going to bed. Ray Esposito ------------------------------ From: Ray Esposito Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:19:51 -0500 Subject: [Baren 223] Re: Brushes. Dave wrote: >Printers here use the largest one they can get away with for any given print >area. It makes the work go extremely quickly - just a swish swish, and >the block is ready. Swish swish?????? Now there is an interesting artist technique. Ray Esposito ------------------------------ From: Ray Esposito Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:22:13 -0500 Subject: [Baren 224] Re: Gold leafing Dave wrote: >P.S. By the way - how do you like that phrase 'many printmaking >books'? There are even a dozen or so in our local town library. >Woodblock printmaking has its own shelf ... >Eat your heart out! We all are!!!! Ray Esposito ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V2 #46 **************************