[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.

Baren Digest             Wednesday, 21 January 1998     Volume 02 : Number 042

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From: Matthew.W.Brown@VALLEY.NET (Matthew W Brown)
Date: 20 Jan 98 20:11:51 EST
Subject: [Baren 180] Print editioning 

 Baren,

	A notion Bill shared about print editioning interested me a great deal.

Bill wrote: 
> Actually, any edition, even an open one, is "limited" by, if nothing
> else, the physical impossibility of printing an infinite number of
> prints.  The fundamental difference between open and limited editions is
> that for the former, the size of the edition is not known and may even
> be a moving target;  for limited editions, the size is known and is a
> fundamental part of the buyer/seller communication. 
>  Numbered editioning can also be viewed as a well-intentioned tool of
> communication, not just a devious and artificial creator of rarity. 

	I have found questions about edition numbering one of the most common
"openers" for people looking at prints. This has led me to believe that it is
an addition to the print, and can be an aid in describing the nature of the
print, and the nature of the printmaker's relationship to it, specifically how
many he has made or plans to make. But when does the fact everyone does it
differently serve to make the printmaking activity interesting, when does it
lead to confusion?
	It would seem that the process of making the color woodblock with the
Japanese method is different enough from that of making prints on a press that
there would want to be a different approach to editioning (as Dave has pointed
out). But here in the States there are so few of us making them. . .
	
On the topic of editioning and print sale practices  I would like to share some
queries I have had:

	A subject I have had trouble with is the question of raising the price
of a print as an edition sells out. The gallery owner who sells mostly crafts
was irate that I wanted more $ for a print that was almost sold out; the print
collector in NYC stated that he understood it common practice to raise the
price as an edition sells. What to do?

	A related problem: how to price for different markets? Consistency
would be great, but to have the print in the city gallery priced the same as
the little local small-town shop, or at the craft fair . . .? Have others any
notions on this issue?

Graham described a 'mistake' a printmaker made: "They were strongly priced at
$1000.00 to 1200.00 six or seven
years ago.   He then took the images and had thousands of reproduction made
that sold for $30.00 The screen prints are now worth half the price."

So when does reproducing an image add to its value and when does it detract? I
have made postcards of some of my prints, and have often wondered if they are
helping or hindering sales of the prints themselves. Does putting images on the
web add or detract from an image's 'specialness'?

Dave, on a little technical matter. Any particular tricks for avoiding the
occasional imprint of the kento mark on the outside border of a print? 


Matt

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:34:39 -0800
Subject: [Baren 181] Re: Print editioning 

Matt wrote.
>A related problem: how to price for different markets? Consistency
>would be great, but to have the print in the city gallery priced the same as
>the little local small-town shop, or at the craft fair . . .? Have others any
>notions on this issue?

I am very careful that the price of my prints are consistent regardless of
where they are sold.
I have a buyer living in a very small village  .  Gibson...  one ferry boat
north of Vancouve and well off the beaten track.
That person checked several places to make sure the price was consistent.
He is a collector and wanted to make sure that the market value was "THE
MARKET VALUE"
I have always had the policy of 1.   Never undercut the galleries when
selling out of your studio.  2.  Never deal.    I have lost lots of sales
because I would not give the buyer a special price..  I recall one time a
person came to a show and picked out 5 pieces and then asked what the price
will be.  I went to the price list and figured out the total.  When there
was no price cut he asked about a volumn discount.  I politely as possible
reminded him that this was an artist studio show not a furniture show room.


>Graham described a 'mistake' a printmaker made: "They were strongly priced at
>$1000.00 to 1200.00 six or seven
>years ago.   He then took the images and had thousands of reproduction made
>that sold for $30.00 The screen prints are now worth half the price."

I should clearify that the size of the $30.00 reproductions was almost the
same size and the original prints.

Doing Post Cards or Art Cards  is probably alright.  I think a lot depends
on the volumn and coverage.  It is like taking an print image and making
and show invitation.   I have done this and had a couple of thousands card
that we sold as Art Card.

>Does putting images on the
>web add or detract from an image's 'specialness'?

Web image are, from my point of view, a method of advertising.the product.

>Dave, on a little technical matter. Any particular tricks for avoiding the
>occasional imprint of the kento mark on the outside border of a print?

Are your borders large enough?  None of mine are less than 1 1/8" and most
are 1 1/2" +  This sets the Kento mark far enough away so that it never
becomes and marking problem.

Graham

ps That buyer came back and purchased numerous piece at other shows.
I had fun with this because as soon as he walks in the door I say....what
you see ...you know the rest.


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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:24:25 +0900
Subject: [Baren 182] Web-site update ... 

Matt asked:
> Any particular tricks for avoiding the occasional 
> imprint of the kento mark on the outside border of a print? 

I don't usually mind these small smudges of pigment, as they help serve
to give the print the 'hand-made' look ...  They are visible on many
prints here, even many of the ones made hundreds of years ago.  

It's possible to avoid them by starting with a larger sheet of paper,
and then trimming later, but to do this, one has to waste both a lot of
paper, and a lot of block area, although as Graham has mentioned, if you
want wide margins, it's not 'waste' ...

I think there are probably some black and green smudges on the little
print I sent you a while ago ...

***

This afternoon I'm uploading a few photos a friend took at my
just-finished exhibition.  They're on my web site in the 'Exhibition'
section, under 'Event Reports'.  They might help put a 'real' image on
that 'At the Gallery' post I made a few days ago ...

Dave

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:05:27 +0900
Subject: [Baren 183] Re: Print pricing 

Matt wrote:
>  ... the question of raising the price of a print as an edition sells out ...
and
>   A related problem: how to price for different markets? 

I've arrived at my print prices a bit of a different way ...   When I
was first projecting my set of 100 prints, I sat down with a sheet of
paper (a _large_ sheet of paper), and tried to work out what all my
costs would be over the ten years.  I included everything I could think
of, basic stuff like rent, food, kid's shoes, etc., and of course all
the expenses of making and marketing the prints themselves.

I then tried to work out various combinations of 'guesstimated' sales at
different price ranges.  I ended up pricing the prints at 10,000 yen
each; if I could get 60 subscribers at that price taking ten prints each
year, I would be able to make a living at it.  Anything over 60 would be
'bonus'.  

The price of my prints is thus a direct reflection of what it costs to
make them, both in materials, etc., and in the living expenses of the
worker involved.  The idea of 'pricing for different markets' never
entered into the equations.  

I've chatted with collectors/gallery visitors/ etc. about these things,
and have heard on a number of occasions that my prints are 'too cheap'. 
I suspect that in 'status conscious' Japan, I may have lost quite a few
sales as a result.  That may indeed be the case, but I think any such
lost sales have been made up for by sales gained at the other end of the
stick - people who can now afford the prints ...

And for that most difficult, and I think, unanswerable question - What
are these prints 'worth'?  That, history will have to take care of.  For
me, I've got a full stomach and a bunch of happy collectors.  That's
enough.

Dave

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End of Baren Digest V2 #42
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