[Baren]: The mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking.


Baren Digest             Saturday, 29 November 1997     Volume 01 : Number 002


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From: Bill Mixon <bmixon@nine.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:50:51 -0500
Subject: [Baren 5] Intro 

Hello all,

I'm delighted to see this new forum opening up.  Many thanks to David
Bull for hosting it!  It sounds like an interesting mix of people and
viewpoints.

I'm a student at the School of the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston.

Hokusai and Hiroshige triggered my interest in printmaking;  this really
gelled for me at the wonderful traveling exhibit of Hiroshige prints
that appeared at the MFA a few years ago.

I have not as yet done much woodblock printmaking.  I hope to do more of
that next semester.  The past two semesters have focused on etching.
However, I've found myself drawn to viscosity printing techniques and
relief etchings a lot, so I suppose I've been heading towards relief
prints for awhile...  My interests will always remain eclectic, but I
see woodblock prints holding an important place.

Some related interests include papermaking (studied with Elaine Koretsky
at Carriage House Paper about twenty years ago, as well as more recently
at the SMFA), and visual books.

Best regards,

Bill Mixon
Boston, MA


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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:56:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 6] Wife Version 1.0 

Hope this activates your laugh button.

(... long and 'off-topic' joke deleted from digest ...)

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From: Patrick Robinson <psyberdude@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 21:49:51 -0500
Subject: [Baren 7] Well . . well  .... well 

Graham Scholes wrote:

> . . . and we must make every effort to inform the public that reproductions 
>are simply decorative art that you buy today to throw away tomorrow. 
Surprisingly enough, for one who occassionally stoops to sell a reproductive print, I 
couldn't agree more . . . with a couple of caveats, that is.

The problem is not simply a case of reproductions being decorative art to be disposed
of in due course, as opposed to "original" prints (such as woodblocks) being fine art 
and heirloom collectibles. In essence, the crux of the argument as posited by most 
printmakers and some art dealers is found in the distinction between how much 
hands-on personal creative effort the artist put into actually **making** the print, 
as opposed to the photographic reproduction of an image being printed onto paper (or 
canvas!) by a technician, with little or no imput by the artist who created the original
image. (Whoo-oosh! Try reading THAT paragraph out loud without drawing an extra 
breath . . . sorry about that.)

But in a sense this is an acedemic argument. Let's face it folks, a greater problem
faced by artists making original, hand-pulled prints is that for the most part the
buying public doesn't realy care HOW the printing takes place. These art buyers are
more interested in WHAT has been printed than the technology involved. The Great 
Unwashed Public ARE buying reproductive images to be used more as decorative 
accessorization than as works of fine, hand-crafted art. And only part of this has to
do with price.

Our art gallery happens to sell both original works from the 16th to the 20th century 
AND reproductive prints. However, I probably find loving homes for only one etching or 
woodblock to every 200 reproductive prints. And as reproductions begin to catch up in 
retail price with original prints, this great disparity in numbers sold isn't just the 
result of higher prices for hand-made prints. We are absolutely astounded to see 
reproductive prints in "limited" editions numbering in the THOUSANDS selling in 
(other) galleries for $1,500 to $2,500 (Bev Doolittle comes to mind), while original 
first-edition Hiroshige prints are fetching less than $500 in many auctions. What a 
sad commentary on the art "consumer" of today!

The original artist-produced print is becoming more and more of a rarity in the 
marketplace these days. However, this can work as an advantage, as well as being a 
challange. It seems to me that we will get a lot further by stressing the hands-on 
aspect of the creative process for original prints, and attempt to educate the buying 
public as to the unique niche that the hand-pulled print holds in the world of art. It is, 
in a real sense, just a "market positioning" situation, rather than a battle between 
"good and evil". 
The Internet web sites created by several of this new mailing list's members that I 
have visited do a sensationally good job of providing this education. I hope to add my 
own modest efforts in this regard.

>The next wave will be ink jet prints.

Ink jet prints are very much with us as the latest technological printing fad, pushed 
not only by publishers but by artists themselves. Many artists who are not 
printmakers, yet want to reproduce the images of their paintings, find that the Iris 
ink jet process allows them to create by digital means a small number of prints as 
needed, rather than pay the up-front costs of having a full press-run of 500 to 750. 
Publishers have of course jumped on the bandwagon simply because they can print-to-
order using the Giclee process, instead of having to maintain expensive full-run print 
inventories.

I suppose that in the end the old maxim that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" 
applies to the argument about technology versus craft.

Regards from the Island of Maui in Hawaii

Patrick Robinson 

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 12:44:28 +0900
Subject: [Baren 8] Re: Non-toxic alternatives ... 

Daniel wrote:
>  I put up a site on nontoxic studio alternatives ...

I'm looking for a bit of advice on a related problem.  My apartment here
in Tokyo is not air-conditioned, and during the rainy season and through
the summer when the humidity is very high, I have a problem with mold.

My prints usually have about 8~12 colours, and I usually make around 130
copies of each one.  This takes about five days, and when you count in
the couple of days that the paper is moistened before actually starting
printing, it's about a week altogether that the paper is stacked up,
warm and wet.  It's the perfect medium for mold to grow.

I read once that back in the old days (Edo times), publishers avoided
scheduling prints that had many colours for the summer, and tried to
have them done in the fall or winter.  The advice I received from a few
of the older printers here when I asked about how they handled this
problem, was to use 'Formalin' to stop the mold, and I watched one of
them one day pouring the stuff into his water bucket ...  After a bad
experience losing a whole batch of paper one month, I took his advice
and started to use it in my moistening water, and since then had no
problems.

Last year I saw a story in my newspaper that cited Formalin as being a
carcinogen though, and so have stopped using it.  But the prints I make
during the summer months now, are a race against time - can I finish all
the colours before my nose tells me that the paper has gone bad?

How do you guys handle this problem? 

Dave

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 13:00:37 +0900
Subject: [Baren 9] Re: Well . . well  .... well 

Patrick Robinson wrote:
>
> The original artist-produced print is becoming more and more of a rarity
> in the marketplace these days. However, this can work as an advantage, as
> well as being a challenge. It seems to me that we will get a lot further
> by stressing the hands-on aspect of the creative process for original
> prints ...

This is very very true.  Excuse me for banging my own drum here, but
every year during my January exhibition, I always take my printing bench
and tools.  I don't work throughout the day, but every now and then,
when a bit of a crowd has gathered, I sit down and do a quick run of one
of my smaller prints - from blank paper to finished copy.  It is after
watching that demonstration, that many of the orders come in ...

Try _that_ with an ink-jet printer sitting in the middle of the gallery
floor!  If people could actually see those things being 'manufactured',
do you think for one minute that anybody would ever buy one?  I think
this is why they came up with that name 'Giclee', instead of a
straight-forward description.  (By the way Patrick, what does that word
actually mean?  Is it French?)

For myself then, the response to those new technologies is simple. 
Ignore them.  Do your own thing, and try and do it as well as possible. 
There will always be people who appreciate fine craftsmanship ...
always.

Dave

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From: Oilcolors@aol.com
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 00:54:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Baren 10] Non-toxic alternatives fungicide... 

David:

I guess my wife was right when she told me A/C was scarce in Japan even among
the affluent.

Formalin is actually one of the most hazardous substances you can buy without
a permit.  I don't believe any artist still us it in the US although it is
suggested by all the classics on artists' materials.  People also used to use
mass quantities of arsenic as a preservative until recently.

The following may work if the paper is kept in a sealed container.  Rubbing
alcohol fumes produce an mold unfriendly environment in closed quarters but
vapors off quickly when the paper is left out for any time, but the question
is, would it harden the paper size?  Clove oil fumes off a rag or sponge
would also serve but anything else like boric acid would I'm sure pose an
archival problem... I understand printing in the old days was very seasonal.
 There is a DOW fungicide which is supposed to be relatively inert in terms
of tainting materials but I'll have to look up the exact name of the product
when I go into the office next week.  I think I would buy an old refrigerator
if I were you.

Daniel

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@islandnet.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 21:57:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 11] Re: Well . . well  .... well 

Hi out here.

Patrick...
Thanks for the response re decorative art.  You done good (French Canadian
expression) and I quite enjoyed your ideas and thoughts and I think you
nailed the situation.   Lets hope that education can happen using the net.

Dave.....
maybe we should take our Epson Ink Jet printers and show people how how
simple it is. Just let the thing spew out stuff while we sit beside it
doing our hands on printing.  Na...they wouldn't put two and two together.
You'd have to hit them on the head with a two by four.

'Giclee' is french and its meaning is  ...  to spurt.  Like the spurt of
ink.  The word has been banned France because of its sexual connotations.

"response to those new technologies is simple. Ignore them"
I don't think we should ignore them..lets encourage the to put there prices
up.  (<:

I will reply tomorrow re Clouds White pigment

<I got a good laugh from your joke on [Baren] this morning, but I
hope you don't send too many.>

I only send jokes that I rate 10 out of 10.
Marnie thought it was funny.  Hey after 40 years it is not a consideration.
Actually it never has been a consideration in 40 years. And if your not
convinced the how about...Grandmothers are beyond that.

TTYL

Graham

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From: David Bull <davebull@asahi-net.email.ne.jp>
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 15:33:30 +0900
Subject: [Baren 12] Re: Non-toxic alternatives fungicide... 

Daniel wrote:

>  I think I would buy an old refrigerator if I were you.

Actually, this is just what I use.  Although, since I live alone with no
Wife Version 1.0 present to cause system conflicts, the main household
fridge is my choice.   (This also forces me to keep at least one of the
shelves in there clean and clear ...!)

This isn't a perfect solution though.  Having the paper in a cold
condition when printing does make it seem 'harder', although that my
just be my imagination.  Perhaps if I turned the fridge down a bit it
would help ...

The rubbing alcohol solution sounds interesting, but as the paper is
kept quite tightly stacked in a pile, would the fumes have a chance to
penetrate to all the paper surfaces?  I don't think it would affect the
sizing ...  I use pure ethyl alcohol to mix some of the pigments - it
does its work and then evaporates very quickly ...


> I guess my wife was right when she told me A/C was scarce in Japan even among
> the affluent.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what A/C means ....

Thanx for the reply!

Dave

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From: Oilcolors@aol.com
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 01:35:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Baren 13] Reproductive prints. 

I've observed that people will much rather spend more on a reproductive print
than less on an original.  I think it a matter of not trusting their taste...
they need Jeff Koons to tell them its okay to love schlock --so long as its
priced high enough! 

You could certainly sell a photocopy of a work by a *famous artist* for more
than a unique original by an outstanding unrecognized artist... its about
buying the external validation of received opinion.  And its about buying the
autograph, even if its stamped on.  Some estates of artists whose work has
lapsed into the public domain have started suits on the basis that the
signature itself is a trademark or service mark with more extensive legal
protections than the mere copyright of the image... cut the signature off a
great work and see what its worth.  The practice of unhanging works in
museums when they are reattributed makes me crazy, if the work now isn't
worth hanging, what was it doing up in the first place?

I think the reason why curators of contemporary art so privilege conceptual
art is that with it the maters of taste and aesthetic judgment are replaced
by an appreciation for cleverness or the voicing of facile politically
correct sentiment.
  
I was reading a funky old book called *The Science and Art of Drawing* by
Harold Speed and he said something to the effect that modern artists were
mistaking peculiarity and novelty for originality whereas the traditional
forms and subjects come through with originality so long as they are
manifestations of a real authenticity.

Wow! That sure sounds shrill... are my sentiments just the sour grapes of an
artist with no commercial potential... you be the judge.

Daniel

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End of Baren Digest V1 #2
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